I used to believe that being a good friend meant saying yes to everything. I would stay on the phone for hours and agree to all social requests unthinkingly. No wonder I often felt conflicted about my friends — guilty over the friends I was letting down, disappointed in the friends who were letting me down.
Until you learn how to say no to friends (instead of lying, avoiding them, or giving them way too much even when you’re running on empty), it’s hard to enjoy your connection. This is why the idea of “toxic” friends (which I wrote about in today’s Ask Polly) often rubs me the wrong way. Taking too much and giving too much are both ways of hiding in plain sight, playing a role instead of genuinely showing up.
The pandemic has forced most of us to audit our friendships. This topic is GIGANTIC but I just want to start by saying FRIENDSHIP IS HARD. Most of us don’t know how to draw firm boundaries, ask for what we need, or manage conflict honestly. It’s a mess. So leap in with whatever you’ve got!
I also think that our compasses can get misaligned by our childhood experiences. We can feel "good" or "relief" when we enter a bad situation because it is familiar. It takes time and somatic work to realign the compass to true north.
Well put. I crave a lot of off-kilter situations because they feel like home, and it takes tons of time and patience to let people bring whatever they have and also look for the kinds of peole who might bring you what you actually need occasionally. I used to either act invincible or cry over the phone to people (years ago) and it wasn't that relaxing for them or me. In the past year I've figured out how to state my vulnerabilities more plainly and frequently so I'm not misrepresenting myself or looking like a fucking robot to people I want to connect with. I've also learned to be more patient and interested in earnest, loving people who would've sent me running for the hills in the past. Keeping your eyes open for new friends is so important, really, because it makes it easier to a) recognize traits that you crave in a friend while you also b) build your tolerance for your old friends and your family, with all of their particular quirks and, ahem, lifelong flaws. And the more you accept a wide range of flaws in others without judgment, the more you accept your own. Winning! It does take years, though. It's just slow. And the work is never really done. That's okay once you just accept it. Accepting it is still hard!
Good point for sure, I'm often appalled that I seem to only realize how uncomfortable (or closed off, or numbed out) I was after a friendship comes to an end.
It's so fucking hard! All of it, goddamn! I learnt a lot about boundaries when I was younger from volunteering at a suicide crisis line (the training was extremely good and taught me the difference between a difficult conversation and an unproductive one). What surprised me, and still continues to surprise me is how stunningly direct you can be with someone while still taking them seriously.
Telling a depressed person that they have talked themselves in circles and it would best for them to hang up to get on with their day sounds so awful and rude, doesn't it? And yet I disobeyed every value about politeness I was raised with, followed the crisis line policies and did it lovingly, and it was taken as such, and I still can't believe I pulled it off. That's a slightly more controlled, intense environment than everyday life but it has stuck with me for years, and reminds me that honesty isn't as scary as overriding the discomfort.
Hi, thank you for sharing this so much. I've been at a loss feeling like a "bad person" or a "bad friend" for setting boundaries with friends with mental health diagnoses. Feel like I'm never giving enough or I always feel desperate to say the right thing that I end up overthinking or putting in way too much work. I feel like I sometimes enter the dark space with them, take on their feelings for the, then forget my own way out and get overwhelmed. I love people but because I don't know what I'm doing with myself I feel like I have to push them away.
Sometimes just setting a boundary inside your mind helps -- knowing when you're available and when you're not, understanding how long you want to be on the phone, and recognizing when someone is just occupying a teenager-like state of resistance that doesn't allow room for another person's influence or input. Sometimes people invite you into their puzzle just to tell you that everything you're adding to the picture is BAD and NOT IT. That's when I tend to move back into a space of "I know this is really hard" or "You're feeling shitty, I hear that loud and clear and I'm sorry."
But I also try to mention my time limits (I have to make dinner in 20 minutes), and stay alert to how present I feel in the conversation. If I'm getting impatient or drifting, I'm not going to be much help.
I also sometimes think "Okay, this friend is like a once-a-week call friend, and this other friend is probably an hour twice a week." That would sound all wrong to me a few years ago, but I have a lot of friends and I want to be thoughtful about how I split up my time. I have to think clearly about which friends need my help sometimes, which friends are doing fine, and which phone calls bring me life and which ones drain me. I'm okay with SOME DRAINING! People aren't always bringing amazement and wonder into your world. But that's all the more reason why looking at the big picture and understanding what you want from your friendships can make you feel so much more empowered and also connected to the people in your life.
The worst case scenario is that you take a few draining friendships and you allow them to color all of your friends as burdensome. I used to do that a lot when I was younger. It's not fair to anyone, and it springs from an inability to assert yourself and take care of yourself.
This! One of my best friends calls me every so often after 11PM and for years I would take the calls and then get so stressed that I couldn't sleep. But I felt like a bad friend for not answering a distressed phone call. Now I just call back the next morning.
It's a lot of active listening mainly, which is a lot of what most counsellors or therapists do. All I was really doing was reminding callers of the crisis lines boundaries, without mincing my words. To be honest I had to learn to trust my gut on whether someone was talking cathartically or not and I won't pretend it was ever easy. Scary as fuck sometimes!
I remember years ago I was in a bad place and I wrote to several friends about it. They all answered very pragmatically, suggesting courses of action when what I wanted was some empathy, some warmth and comfort. I found myself feeling so hurt but I realized that I had created the situation. I had attracted pragmatic friends and I had kept them at arm's length. We had no history together of my being vulnerable so they responded as they thought I wanted. But even seeing that, it's taken me many years to shift my disordered attachment and fear of vulnerability. I am still on the path of it. My difficulties and deep hurt have made me feel so tender toward human beings. What pain we carry!
I don't have an answer but man I have some friends that are huge sucks of time and attention and I'm torn between my "Oh god, not now" reaction when I see a message or something from them and believing as one of their few/only friends, I can't just ditch them because that's not cool.
Making an internal commitment to do x amount - talk on the phone for an hour a week, see someone every two weeks - sometimes helps. You know you're not being a complete asshole but you also feel like you have some control over how you spend your time. Some friendships do become mostly obligation at times, but when you know you're respecting your own needs, that frees you up to show up in limited doses. And when you do show up and you're feeling good about it, that affects the energy of the conversation. You might be surprised at how well it goes, in fact, once you feel lighter because you're not doing too much or contemplating disappearing anymore.
I'm an only child, and had a mostly positive but boundary-less relationship with my mom for most of my life. Once I finally gave myself permission to set boundaries with her, all of my relationships improved. I finally trusted my own needs and feelings instead of looking to her (or others) for approval / instruction, and became so much better at asking for what I want without shame. When I first started setting them-- which began by me telling her that I didn't want to discuss my dating life with her for a set period of time-- she was angry and hurt. But, after re-setting that boundary several times, we finally broke out of our bad dynamic and into a better one. She and I are still close, and sometimes we even fall back on old patterns, but she trusts and respects me in ways she didn't before. Boundaries are a blessing.
Wow, I'm impressed by this! I've gone through this with my own mom and I've managed to set certain boundaries but still struggle a lot when what she wants from the relationship vs what I want are very very different.
Haha thank you! Re-reading my comment now and realizing I made it sound simpler and easier than it actually was/is. We're in a good spot now but I fully anticipate these issues resurfacing if/when I have a long-term partner or children. What I guess I was trying to say with this, and didn't really say clearly, is that beginning to create boundaries in that central, foundational relationship almost instantly made my other relationships much healthier too
That makes sense! Working on my relationship with my mom definitely set me up to identify and find a good relationship with others and especially my partner, even if our relationship continues to be super challenging.
The nebulous way we define friendships doesn't help either -- how tragic for all parties involved when one person wants a much deeper/more invested friendship than theother. Can be very difficult to manage expectations without having romance-like "Defining The Relationship" conversations.
Yes! Something I've come to is that relationships are all a gradient. There are lots of places they can fall between "acquaintance" and "life partner" and it's not so well defined.
Exactly! The possibilities for feeling shame are just too huge. I still feel like I don’t know true status of one or two long-term connections. And as I keep hearing, you’re supposed to stay positive and not seem needy and accept what the relationship is, even if it’s not clear I guess?
This week's column made me think - especially this part:
"It’s humbling to realize that your damage probably matches your friends’ damage on some level, it just manifests itself in different ways."
I too have struggled maintaining friendships in the past, but I'd like to think that I'm generally good at understanding that I'm flawed and biased and have deep insecurities. What frustrates me is when friends can't meet me there - I say something to myself like "why do I have to be the only one that's reflecting on what I did wrong here and how I could be a better friend? You're not doing any reflecting!" I've found this with some ex-friends even when mustering up the courage to have those difficult boundaries conversations.
Although I can zoom out and see why some ex-friendships just weren't right, I do wonder "is it me?" How do you know when your boundaries are serving you or when you're just not being a flexible enough friend?
I have lived in 3 states in 10 years. This means that most of my friendships are long distance and rely on text and phone calls, especially more so in the pandemic. I struggled with this pre-covid and I am especially struggling with this now, because so many of my friendships seem to have unspoken conflicts or minor breakdowns that seem related to the incompleteness of a text exchange. Tone is hard to convey over a typed message, you know? I struggle to admit I need more from a friendship because I feel like you need to accept your friends as they are.
Texting falls apart so easily. People have completely different styles that often don't match up well. Asking to switch to phone calls is good. I've had people ask me to switch and it's made the friendship much deeper. I also think it's good to just keep yourself open to phone calls right now. I can get avoidant about getting on the phone, but it's good for me to do it every day so I recognize that it's actually much lower pressure than texting or Zooming. Anyway, I get it and I'm sorry! I hope you can coax these friends onto the phone more often. Sometimes just texting HEY WANT TO TALK? out of the blue is better than mapping it out, as long as you don't take it too personally when someone doesn't happen to be free.
Since the pandemic, I have really gotten into the "hey, are you free for a phone chat right now" text! I love to send it and I love to receive it, and the more you do it, the less awkward it is to send or receive a no! I also like it because a scheduled phone call, at least for me and my friends, seems to have at best a 50% chance of actually happening. Usually one of us bails, or is like "actually can we push it to 3:30" and then the other person is like "no, I have another thing to do" and then you go back and forth for a thousand years trying to find another time that someone will also bail on. No more of this. Just a nice "hey, are you free to chat RIGHT NOW YES OR NO?"
I loved this week’s column, & think the idea of boundaries & clearly expressing them goes in all ways. I had a friend for years for whom I was always the one listening & supportive & giving advice, because I didn’t set boundaries - & this was fine in a certain way for a while, until I myself went through a trauma & needed support. Suddenly, the roles had shifted & not only did I need to set boundaries on how much of her load I could take on, but I needed support, which she wasn’t prepared to give. What ended the friendship, however, was her inability to say that she couldn’t support me in the ways I was asking - she would say “Yea of course I can [invite you out/come over/help you socialise/whatever]” - but literally never would. But the promises kept coming, to the point where I felt gaslit. And when I finally broke & pointed this out, she felt attacked, because she couldn’t express her boundaries or hear mine. The idea of boundaries felt like conflict or an attack, instead of something that would help us both understand each other’s limits.
This is so familiar to me. Exerting boundaries directly isn't actually that common, so people often mistake it for an attack when you're actually being vulnerable by saying *this is what I want, can you give it?* I do think that gentle requests and patience are a good call with friends who aren't accustomed to showing up and supporting YOU IN PARTICULAR. We all get used to behaving in different ways with different friends, and if you get into a rut with a friend, it does take time to shift gears. In one old friendship, I said, "I'd really like X." The friend disappeared for a while, reappeared, and then started to do the thing I asked for almost a year later. That's pretty extreme, but with old friendships that feel more like sibling relationships, sometimes it pays to slow down and accept that low self-esteem or a fragile grasp of intimacy can make people behave in a wide range of ways under pressure. Bottom line, though: Asserting boundaries is challenging! And it doesn't always work. But at some point, if you don't feel like you have a right to ask for what you want, that squats on your whole damn life, not just your friendships.
This was exactly my experience. “Friends don’t have boundaries,” was what she ended up spitting at me. But the real messed up part is that I’m the one that looked like I abandoned her in the middle of a crisis, when in fact the crisis has been going on for several years, I had unfailingly helped her those years, including flying at drop of hat to London for 3 weeks to help her take care of new twins when her trauma relationship hit another snag. I was in a health crisis that she couldn’t understand / validate and I just burned out. So I’m the flake. Still makes me sad.
Your phrase "showing up" has always been so evocative for me. My form of not showing up in friendships mostly corresponds to giving too much and/or giving performances. I was never a girl like most other girls, which I experienced as heartbreaking. It's like my mind was always different. I always wanted to be lighter and softer and more extroverted and fun, and instead I am serious and logical. I like science-y things and I know my own mind. Being different meant that I didn't fit in well as a child, so I was always looking for a new friend with the determination that I was going to try really really hard this time to be someone that my friend would like. I didn't fit in well at home either, which really amplified the screwed-upness of it all. My logical dad liked having a serious, smart daughter, but my mother did not, and she also felt threatened by the similarities that my father and I shared. My non-girly nature had made me the girl that even her mother didn't love.
As an adult, I have a successful career and a husband who (unbelievably to me) loves me. Still, I feel like I have this sharpness inside that I must constantly try to wrap in cotton because I know what will happen if any of my few friends brushes up against its edges: in the very next instant, I will find that I'm completely alone. The effort of this is so exhausting and stressful -- and it feels doomed to fail anyway, like it's just a matter of time until I drive them away. I'm always touched by your discoveries around living as who you truly are, and sometimes I feel flurries of hopefulness that I can do that too. I struggle, though, with the deep wells of sadness that my real self is so difficult for other people, and I feel afraid of the isolated life that I imagine is ahead.
Just want to say that the feeling of having sharpness inside and struggling to form connections, especially as a young girl, absolutely resonates with me. To this day, things that make me feel like people don't understand the things bouncing around in my mind, and therefore don't understand me, are big triggers of that childhood wound. You're not alone in feeling alone.
But as I got older, I found a good group of people who like me and my weird brain that is serious and logical and sometimes pessimistic and cutting. I don't know that any of them think exactly like me but it works. Some of them also have that sharpness inside, and we can expose that to each other and tell each other what we're mad about, and bitter about, and what we're striving toward. Some of them do not have that sharpness--they are soft and fun and sensitive--but together we have interesting conflicting conversations on where on minds overlap and diverge. Sometimes they tell me they appreciate my directness and sharpness! Sometimes, I need to mind those soft and fun peoples boundaries...I CAN be overbearing and critical and blunt! But that's the beauty of boundaries--they help me understand who can engage with me in what way, and not feel like I need to carefully construct the viewports through which friends can see the "real" me.
I understand your advice about asking for what you want. Here's my issue: I don't like it when my friends assert boundaries or ask for what THEY want (I am feeling shame that I don't like it when ppl assert boundaries). I guess it makes me feel criticized/that I can't be myself?
For example, one of my friends said she doesn't like us talking about my crushes. (she's never had a crush, and I LOVE talking about my crushes). Now I just feel bad hanging out with her. I don't like upholding her boundaries, I guess, and that is bad. I actually want to stop hanging out with her now because I feel like I have to hide who I am.
I don't like when my friends ask for what they want so I rarely ask for what I want.
Thanks for being so honest, this is such an important point! Before I learned how to ask for what I wanted, I hated it when people asked me for what they wanted, too. I felt inadequate when they'd say things like "I want to go out shopping but you're such a stick in the mud!" or "You always throw big parties but I like quiet dinner parties!" or "I can't really handle someone crying to me on the phone." (lol, I went through a big "call your friends and cry!" phase that I'm not sure I'd recommend across the board.) Basically, I took everything personally. When someone had a preference, that felt like a judgment on my character.
I guess it's possible to stay in that space forever, but I have to tell you, it's much easier and more relaxing to work on accepting exactly who you are while also allowing other people to be who they are. Your friend who doesn't like talking about crushes might be a very assertive person in other ways you dislike and that's the heart of the problem. But if you like talking to her about a lot of stuff INCLUDING crushes, it might be possible to comply with her request without seeing your love of crushes as a flaw. (I loooooove talking about crushes myself.) Plenty of people like talking about crushes! You can talk to her about other stuff and still get your needs met, I'm sure of it.
When you accept who you are and feel comfortable with being a flawed human with needs, you can go out into the world and meet a wide range of people and meet them on common ground. You can shop with your shopping friends and lie around doing nothing with your hermit friends. A direct expression of preferences is not personal. Just yesterday, I was telling a friend of mine that I like to make a plan in advance because otherwise I'll get wishy washy about it in the final stretch. She was like "I hate planning anything, I like to play everything by ear and I bail on anything and everything when I don't feel like doing it." This was information that I found very useful to know! In the past, I would've thought, "Fuck her, she shouldn't bail on people like that! And she should learn to make a fucking plan!" But I didn't have that thought at all. I just thought "DAMN it's strange how different people are." And my reasons for planning were actually the same as her reasons for not planning: she's afraid she won't be in the mood when the day of the plan rolls around.
People's preferences aren't personal. Your preferences aren't flaws. The more you accept who you are without shame, the easier it'll be to hear someone tell you what they want without taking it as a verdict on your character.
Thank you for reading and responding! "When you accept who you are and feel comfortable with being a flawed human with needs, you can go out into the world and meet a wide range of people and meet them on common ground." This is something I do need to work on...I don't make friends very easily because I see so many flaws in myself and others.
It's definitely an ego thing for me. Something I didn't mention is that someone voicing their preferences also hits a "I don't like being told what to do" bell.
"I want to go out shopping but you're such a stick in the mud!" <- if someone said that to me I'd find it so rude!
Yeah, it is kind of rude! I just think I spent years taking everything people said to me and wanted from me personally. Once I started to forgive myself for being who I was at a deep level, I started to notice that I was often casually rude and also weirdly confrontational with people in ways that I, myself, would have experienced as rude.
I mean, to be honest, I was prone to feeling weird when people said goodbye in a rushed way, just a few years ago. Like it felt like *rejection* to me. Once you start tuning into that level of, well, HALLUCINATION that lives inside you, it makes you reevaluate a lot of your preferences and sensitivities. And once you're clear on the forces acting on you (due to the challenges of your distant past), then you can assert the *important* preferences while letting things that once *felt* rude but really aren't a big deal slide a little more.
Getting clarity about what really matters to you a lot and what doesn't necessarily matter that much is crucial, and that *depends* on boundaries. As long as no one is supposed to have boundaries and everyone is supposed to take whatever whenever in every situation, you just have a mob of people stepping on each other's toes and silently resenting it and feeling weird. It's nice for everyone to have a voice, you know? It depends on trust and understanding, of course. But a lot of people are able to build trust quickly, once they understand that you have clear sight and there's not a lot of resentment in play. I mean, to me, the more you're able to say no and maintain boundaries, the less resentment you experience.
Anyway, that's a lot! Thanks a lot for diving in with such a great comment. xo
Social distancing and remote work have thrown my struggles with asking for things I need into high relief. I reach out rarely anyway but now seize with extra tenacity on any implication that the friend, colleague, or supervisor I want to contact or need to ask for information does not have time for my questions or tolerance for my feelings and then feel unable to inquire about normal and necessary aspects of my work or to explain to friends that I feel I can't approach them. I feel wrong and doomed to be a nuisance, always my worst fear and now often out of control. Suggestions appreciated.
You have to try very hard to look at these anxieties and see how they multiply when you simply proceed *assuming* yourself to be a nuisance. This is an opportunity to examine all of your fundamental views of yourself, tracing them back to your original experiences of identity and selfhood as a kid. There's a way that these conditions are triggering your childhood traumas or wounds or issues, and until you link the current circumstances to the past, it'll be hard to see clearly the ways that your assumptions about yourself detract from your interactions with others. Considering that all of this stuff is sort of ruling your existence at the moment, I'd recommend getting a therapist you can do televisits with. This crisis is offering you an opportunity to sort through your habits and patterns of interaction and you have some time and space to learn a lot from it, but you have to welcome that learning process, which is bound to be humbling and intense. I know that I've learned a lot over the past few months and phew, a lot of it has been brutal. Trying hard to invite this humbling and get into a vulnerable space about what you need is important. Also, knowing that you *DESERVE* to be loved and are lovable right now, exactly as you are, is crucial. You have to build your faith in that -- and it is really about faith at first, rather than evidence. You just decide that all people are worthy of love and you resolve to view yourself as one of them, no matter what feedback or rejection you encounter along the way. Tuning out rejection and tuning into your belief system is super fucking difficult. I know that very well. But the more you do it, the better you're going to feel. Just don't forget to focus some time on empty, grounding, restorative tasks that have nothing to do with the self, too: exercise, reading, cooking, focusing on your body in space without judgment - basic animal stuff that is vehemently not about self-consciousness or intellectualizing.
Anyway, I'm sorry that it's been so terrible. Best of luck with this, I know it's a lot but it's time to take this shit by the throat and wrestle it to the ground once and for all. It's okay to be here. Be good to yourself and know that grappling with big challenges right now is the norm, not the exception.
It means so much to me to receive this personal response from you, and I am taking your words to heart. (I also remembered another of your columns I wanted to reread--this one, https://www.thecut.com/2020/05/ask-polly-why-do-my-friendships-always-fade-away.html--which is one reason I knew I could trust you on this and was excited that you opened up a discussion on it.) You made my day, and I know you're right. Thank you!
I feel like I know what it's like to feel deeply lonely and misunderstood that I try to be so good & understanding & perhaps emotionally overextending (??) to other people. Only to feel like I'm not getting back that energy (because other people actually have their boundaries?). I know my friends show me love in other ways... but I get jealous when I see friends live EVERYTHING for their partners but seem to do the bare minimum intimacy in their friendships. I feel needy. But I guess it's time for me to branch out and make new friends, pursue people and hobbies that will lead me to feel fulfilled. I feel like I am definitely avoidant though and scared of people and things that seem interesting to me. And I feel like I minimize myself to let others flourish but I'm also scared of being "too much" and leaning into my "craziness" because I won't get that care in return.
I used to party a ton, beginning in college and up through my late 20s. After a bad breakup in which my partner's drug use was really scarring, I examined my own use. Felt I needed a change. Scaled back a lot. Also happened to get into a serious, happy relationship and settled into a cozy nest. As a result I discovered that I am not actually extroverted - I was just charmingly tipsy and flirtatiously single many nights a week for almost a decade. I struggle with my new modest introverted personality. I have a lot of friendships that were formed during my charmingly tipsy single stage and I struggle to connect the same way. I need a lot of alone time these days, sure, but it's also like I lost interest in sharing my day/week/month with some of my friends and I can't really figure out why.
I would resist the urge to treat this as a binary situation: "I used to be extroverted but only with booze, now I'm introverted and I don't connect with people as easily." Your old personality is still there, without the alcohol, it's just a matter of accepting the full scope of who you are without judgment, and learning to show up and connect with people under a wide range of circumstances, without fear or shame. You're avoidant, mostly likely, so you tend to equate socializing with pressure and tend to fear doing it wrong or being a disappointment to others. Maybe you get very focused on how well you're doing, how happy other people are with you, whether or not they approve of you, whether or not you have enough to say. You put too much pressure on yourself, in other words.
But plenty of people socialize by just showing up with nothing and waiting to see where the moment takes them. It's possible to give a lot less and perform a lot less (the way you did when you drank) and still feel connected to others. But you have to work on your tolerance for silence and space and not having anything to say immediately. Once you accept these things, other people will, too. I just wouldn't sum up your situation like "I was x, now I'm y." Because your past charming self who likes attention is still around, and probably wouldn't mind coming out now and then to have some fun. The alcohol part might be less of a prerequisite than you think, once you notice your avoidant tendencies and work harder to accept the full scope of who you are.
thank you. you're spot on when you say " you get very focused on how well you're doing, how happy other people are with you, whether or not they approve of you, whether or not you have enough to say", sometimes my partner's brother and his wife call us (and his wife is my good friend!!) and I often am like OH GOD now I have to be CHARMING and CARRY THIS CONVERSATION ON MY BACK, I don't know why I am like that. I never feel that way with my family and my partner, and even some specific friends that are just for some reason easy to connect with, but with everyone else, its performance time. Working on my tolerance for silence, space, awkwardness, letting the other person try to chime in, all seems like the way to go. Thank you Heather.
So glad I could help! I go through phases like this, too, where I expect myself to carry everyone on my back, mostly just out of an anxious need to please. I try to watch that people pleasing compulsion and that anxious energy closely and remind myself to chill the fuck out and sit back and let the conversation come to me. The weird thing is that often, underneath my anxious compulsion to be "good," I'm confident and calm and I believe in myself. I just have to take a breath and clear away that archaic STATIC in order to notice who I actually am.
I’ve been thinking about what we owe our friends all pandemic. My college roommates and I are all taking leaves of absence this year and they automatically assumed we’d all live together somewhere. That was not my vision. They are pack animals and, of course, I love the pack. But I also want to keep making new friends and bringing new people into my life. Sometimes I feel as if I owe it to the pack to invite them (all 5 of them) along for every adventure before anyone else. It’s what they’d do for me. But do I owe them that? Is it really disloyal to pursue other friendships? What do they even expect? Annoyances I have with these friends so quickly take on a sharper edge because I have chosen to be more separate from the group, even while maintaining very close individual relationships with everyone. I’m really afraid of creating difference where there isn’t any between these friends and I, but I’m really turned off by being a part of such an intense squad that has to OK it’s actions with the group.
Expecting to invite all five people everywhere isn't sustainable. And everyone in the world should ALWAYS feel free to pursue other friends. With a group that gets this restrictive in its expectations, I think it's important to say these things out loud OFTEN, to everyone, in the most calm, gentle, accepting, positive tone possible, before drama kicks up. You have to announce that you're going to respect your own desires outside of the group, and that adults don't pressure each other into a padded, airless cell together. (Okay maybe don't say it that way! Heh, see how good I am at this?) The more you calmly state your intentions without blame or finger-pointing, the more these friends will slowly adjust and put you into your own category. They might even respect you more for it. But who knows? Groups can operate in craaaaaaazy ways. Don't let yourself lose sleep over their weird fixation on rules and solidarity, though. You're free and you don't want a small, cloistered life and maybe you also prefer one-on-one interactions some of the time. Own that without apology and try to move into a compassionate space where you still feel for them but you take their disapproval less seriously.
I'm a 30 year old woman, and I have floated in and out of girl groups in my early 20s. I learned quickly in my youth that I am not interested in being part of a pack. What that meant for me is that I am not interested in suppressing my individuality for the group dynamic. I am too selfish and too impulsive to live my life supporting people I am not even sure I love with my whole heart. I may be being severely unfair, but when I look at instagram and see the packs living on - being each other's bridesmaids, posting on each other's birthdays, I feel no regret! None! In fact I feel a tiny bit of schadenfraude, which is a whole nother thing I should examine (am I a bitch?))). As a loner, I moved cross country, lived in four cities through my 20s, and have cultivated individual friendships with deep meaning and alignment to my values. Sometimes in lonely or frustrating moments, the ease of having A Group feels attractive to me, but I know that it's not really what I want.
Thank you for this. I have never liked going along with the crowd and have never heard it put so eloquently. I'm currently being shunned by my in-laws and instead of making me sad, I'm quite giddy. I love my husband and my son, but I'm not really into the hazing that is required to be a part of that tribe. I've been terrible about boundaries with them up until recently and this feels very freeing.
Argg, this topic. I feel like - maybe like everyone, given the demands of the pandemic - I’ve struggled with friendship this year. I think perhaps one hard thing is that I don’t generally set boundaries well and have been practising doing so more (not during the most ideal circumstances, sure) and have often just encountered friends getting annoyed at this. I find it hard to sit with this as I don’t do well with people being angry at me and the moment someone gets angry, I automatically act like their mood is my problem to fix. Any tips on how to let your friends be angry and that be OK?
I guess I'd ask why you think you experience friends' anger as your responsibility. Were you raised to believe that other people's emotions were somehow your duty to fix? There's a lot of shame in play, enforcing that kind of belief, telling you that you're a failure unless everyone is happy with you at all times. So I'd probably work on that belief system and interrogate that shame. When I was locked into a similar mindset, I felt burdened and angry and guilty a lot of the time, because I felt like I was just bad at being a friend and bad at being a daughter and that created a lot of insecurity and blame aimed at others. But I also felt like a faucet that got turned on and off by other people. It was my job to give people what they wanted, whenever they wanted it.
This will sound absurd, but I've found it helpful to imagine myself as an appliance that doesn't work anymore. I do not make life more convenient for you. I am a mess of twisted metal that throws off smoke and sparks. I wrote an Ask Molly about this:
Sometimes I have to move into an extreme state of Bartleby-like defiance, embracing my own negativity and stubbornness, in order to redefine how I want to live. Not everyone loves this about me, of course! But it's mostly just a transitional state, one that's dramatic enough to shake things up. Because saying "I should do what other people want a lot less so I can tell what I want" is all well and good, but sometimes you just... DON'T DO IT. You're too used to serving others. Proclaiming to YOURSELF "I am taking a break, I am serving no one but myself for a week," gives you an actual taste of how it feels to steer your life based on your own desires for a change, without wondering how other people will feel about it.
Friends who get angry the second you assert gentle boundaries might be friends who aren't accustomed to respecting you. Blaming or attacking them won't gain you more respect. Learning to respect yourself and assert your own boundaries from a distance is a way of taking up a new kind of space in the world, one that tells people that your needs and desires matter, and you're not bending yourself into different shapes by request anymore. Compassion helps: "I am a broken appliance. I forgive you for feeling disappointed in that. However, this is just how I am now. I hope you'll eventually understand."
Thanks for this kind and insightful reply. I wrote this far more breezily than I experience it! The reality is I tend to get an irrational, primal sort of throat prickle of panic when confronted with a close friend's anger and then my brain just shuts off. But somehow you've managed to cover everything I was feeling despite my brief first post. I agree, it's definitely about how I was raised, it was often implied that I was responsible for my parents' bad moods if they were feeling unhappy, and that's bled into the rest of my relationships. I love the idea of using Bartleby as a starting point. Plus taking a week off people-pleasing sounds good too.
I'm a clingy and compulsive replier, or I often have been, and have long felt (in some friendships) that I'm always the one wanting their friendship and it's not reciprocated. During the first lockdown, I actually pretty much ignored/replied quite uninterestedly to a few of my older friends who I didn't have great relationships with. I feel bad for doing that, but I noticed that I too am very capable of avoiding replying when I don't feel like it. I'm trying to consider my attitude to other people and what I really want(ed) from relationships.
In terms of reaching out for support, this has been extremely difficult, but in general I rarely do it. I was living across the continent from most of my friends from 2018 until the start of the pandemic, and I met up with one of my friends this summer (who I'd seen maybe twice when I was back home for holiday), and told them that I had had a really hard time moving away on my own and being in a totally different place with no support. But they were surprised, because I'd just never said how I was feeling or what was going on, even over messenger. It's a bit of a common theme with me, and I notice that I'm upset that people don't reach out and ask me how I am, or share their difficulties and feelings with me, even though I never share my vulnerabilities with them.
I'm now in the position of wanting a) to meet some new people and b) to strengthen some existing friendships that I think are good relationships overall. a) won't happen for a while but b) is possible, it's just terrifying. I've been at a really low-ebb for the last few weeks, mostly due to stuff beyond my control. I'd like to reach out to friends and ask if they have some time to talk, and tell that I'm not doing well, but I don't trust that they want to hear from me or that they wouldn't see it as a burden - most of my friends have close relationships or partners, so it really feels like I'm just putting loads of stuff on them if I tell them about my problems. The terrible/maybe good part is that I know exactly how damaging my habit of not sharing anything is, but I'm also fighting against myself and giving myself myriad reasons not to be straight with people about how awful I feel about different areas of life.
For a long time I’ve been the friend that gave too much and got too little. I was afraid or ashamed to ask.
A tiny bright light for fellow readers: for the first time in my life (I’m in my late 30s) I’ve got a couple of solid friendships. We both feel like we got the better end of the deal, we have real and tough conflicts about vulnerable-feeling things, and what matters most is that we care for each other and want to understand each other and solve things together. I recently got out of a pretty toxic relationship and these friendships are giving me room to be myself without as much fear or shame, to be able to practice setting boundaries and asking for what I want, and getting to feel like a legitimately worthy human. And it’s a two way street. It’s pretty damn amazing. And a relief. Thanks for the moment to reflect and, for once, celebrate.
I have a bit of a problem. But I think its slightly common. I have terrible fibromyalgia (and Im only 24!), which sort of halted my need and well, want for partying. Given bouts with medication and a really bad drug trip & a slightly emotionally abusive ex, all mixed with chronic pain - I also lost my zest or desire to drink much. I developed this odd fear of losing consciousness or altered reality. (Going to therapy) but as a result of this all I paused drinking. This means there are many parties, hangouts that I stopped going to. One of my closest friends is a huge party animal. And has the best time drinking and living it up. She could go on for days w/o sleep, rest and just alcohol and still be dancing endlessly. We became friends before my days of chronic pain and during my days of self hate. Which means shes had a taste of drinking and partying with me. Theyre fond memories, I did have a lot of fun and I cherish them. But, I dont want to do those things anymore. I get tired 3 hours maybe into hanging out with someone. I need to go to bed or my pain just skyrockets and I feel sick. I dont drink and party. We do still have fun, we eat, cook, talk, sing (well, she sings), make breakfast etc. But everytime she asks me if Im up to party and I say no (I also am not a fan of the people she insists on partying with. Some of my old ex friends who were dicks to me. Shes still friends with them) she gets this forlorn look on her face of devastation and i start feeling super guilty. As if im boring and she just doesn't have the same fun with me and keeps expecting it. That sends me in a spiral of hate and remorse, which is already bad because of the realisation that there are some things I wont be able to do due to chronic pain. And then I see her just having the time of her life with her other friends that she parties and hang out with. Theres this happiness on her face that I feel like, isnt there with me. I migjt be overthinking this, Im aware. Because she loves me so dearly and always comes visit me before her boyfriend even when she comes back to our city (has been living in another city for a while). But I constantly feel this over rising guilt. As if I should be doing something im not. As if im boring. Even though, im not. I dont think so, at least. Argh. This feeling sort of really sucks, Aunt Polly.
One more post from greedy ole me - I moved from one (cool, western) city to another (cool, mountain) city to move in with my partner. In my new city (which is big, and ripe with opportunity to eat, and dance, and work out, and connect) I have two IRL friends from long ago and both are down to hang, but other than that how the FUCK does one make new friends when we're still social distancing and winter is coming??
On top of this uprooted discontent, a year ago I had a feud with my partners bff's partner, who was interested in being my friend, over her culturally insensitive art (like nearly every other festival goer//travel girl she was appropriating my culture for AestheticTM) and I feel really disinterested in giving that group/relationship another chance even though we live really close by and could be easy/good/casual friends, which makes me feel EXTREMELY bitchy but also makes me feel like as a woman of color I always have to take this extra step of vetting before I can determine if someone can create a safe space with me, and honestly it just feels exhausting to have to try and build a social life all over again.
I’ve often struggled with a co-dependent dynamic in relationships/friendships. Boundaries come from after you’ve either tapped out of your tank or used someone as a crutch in your decision making. Maintaining the bond goes both ways. Letting each other breathe into your own way but playing a supporting role is what I’ve discovered has worked over the years.
I am still working on boundaries, both setting my own and respecting other people's. Covid-19 killed my dad this summer and I'm supposed to be going on a desperately-needed girls trip next weekend. I'm taking it personally that everyone going isn't automatically and unquestioningly willing to do whatever I ask in terms of infection prevention (i.e. two tests 72 hrs apart and mask wearing whenever we're indoors and in the same room as someone else). But I'm at least speaking up about it rather than secretly stewing :-/ Friendship is indeed hard.
Your comment about taking and giving without boundaries as being two sides of the same coin really hit for me.
I definitely grew up in the model of giving-giving-giving, and it made figuring out and then establishing those boundaries so hard. Add a formative, emotionally abusive relationship in, and I created embedded patterns that I'm still unraveling in my healthy relationships years later. It's hard work both drawing boundaries with how I relate to others, but also drawing boundaries for myself, and redefining my agency. I still sometimes find myself shook when something old comes up--If I had to draw black and white categories in those moments, I would probably be the "toxic" one. I'm getting better but it's a continual process, I suppose is what I'm saying.
I have a friend who will go weeks in between responding to my texts now (sometimes I do this--life is hard right now!) but I've just been trying to check in every so often. She confessed that one of the reasons she hasn't been reaching out is that she worries that she is burdening me because she herself has a really hard time saying no to things. I felt a little lovingly exasperated!
I don't want her to assume that I wouldn't ask for space when I needed it--I feel pretty good at saying no to things now and I'm proud of it. But I also want her to understand that it's about me, not her, and not take any boundaries as a personal read on her character. And I heard that she was maybe needing to draw a boundary of her own, but wasn't able to be clear on it just then...It's unclear boundaries all the way down! I adore this friend, but I worry that I need to anticipate the feelings she's not voicing, and I really try not to act on my predictions of what's in another messy human's head anymore.
Polly, you are right. Friendship IS hard, especially in these weird weird times.
One of my closest, longest friendships has been drifting apart the last few years and the pandemic has made it worst. I've been doing a lot of work in therapy and I feel like I'm as close to my authentic self as I've ever been. With her, it feels like she's moving in the opposite direction, and she's becoming some weird plastic version of herself. We live a decent driving distance apart and I don't have car, so I've barely seen her and she doesn't like to talk on the phone. I don't know how to address how we're moving in different directions. How do you ask someone, "What is wrong with you?" when technically there's nothing wrong? It's like there's some invisible box in the way that I can feel but I can't see to describe it.
Oof, sending a shoulder squeeze to you - I am in a similar situation, pandemic/my life transitions/then hers pushed things to a brink although I took action a few times. I then got pretty cowardly and kept up appearances (she seemed to be struggling a lot, pandemic, me biding my time until I moved out of the city she lives in) and... now I basically said, I need space for this friendship to transition. I wish I'd been able to just say what I needed, and been able to articulate if I could not give her what she needed (because I just kept trying to give her everything). I think part of it is there's nothing wrong with a transition! But one person not acknowledging it means I think it's just time to move forward with you saying: this version of this friendship isn't a friendship anymore. Two cents. It sucks. But holy shit, after I said something, and after I got time away, I have felt incredibly relieved.
I have an old family friend (ah nothing like a family friend to complicate things) who really stirs a lot of shit in me that has NOTHING to do with her. We both come from conservative, immigrant families and I always thought we would be rebels together. Well, we ended up going down different paths, and let's just say she ended up sticking to our roots more than I did. She of course hasn't done anything wrong but I still find myself resenting her, which is totally unfair and immature I know! We also don't have that much in common and there's really not much to talk about, but she seems to be invested in the friendships more than I am, which makes me feel like a total dick. I am locked in this thinking of I need good reason behind my decisions and desires, and can't really come up with a reason not to be her friend besides the fact I'm insecure. Any thoughts?
Okay, so this is like a variation of the "people are all different and nothing is personal and we should all ask for what we want" thread above. One part of having preferences INCLUDES preferring NOT to remain close with some people. I mean, even if the source of your preference is insecurity, does it matter if you absolutely don't enjoy being in this person's company or hearing her speak? But I wouldn't really boil it down to insecurities in this case, honestly. The issue is that your VALUES are very, very different from hers. There are times when that's an issue and there are times when it doesn't matter that much. When you're in a state of flux and you're trying to stick to your convictions about the life you're choosing, it is particularly hard to befriend people who are living in very different ways. This is ANOTHER reason why it's hard not to face a friendship reckoning in your 30s: because people are just starting to embrace their own paths, and it's hard to be exposed to incredibly different paths when you're still feeling shaky about your own.
Because she's an OLD friend and has ties to your family, I'd say don't cut her off but limit your contact. Decide you'll talk to her once a month, say, and stick to that. Eventually she'll get the idea. And if you spend a year like that and every second you speak to her is pure torture? You reevaluate. But I think what you're describing might be a friendship that matures and evolves over the years, or at least becomes more interesting as your choices and your path both feel more solid and reliable to you.
I'm in a weird place where each time a friend cancels plans with me, it seems to sink me into a deeper and deeper hole. I used to be really genuinely nonchalant about it, but now it feels like 9/10 plans get cancelled, or postponed indefinitely, and it's turning into a feedback loop where I'm increasingly desperate for friends to come through for me, but my desperation repels people (understandably.) I know "learn to say no" and "don't feel bad about cancelling if you need to stay in and have some time alone" have become very popular instagram pseudo-psycho-education tropes, but shouldn't there be a balance of most of the time really putting in effort to show up for the people in your life, especially when you say you will? This experience the last few years has made me realize that you just never know where someone's at, emotionally, and bailing should be a rare exception instead of a go-to if you want to be a a good friend for someone to have. Someone you least expect might really need a basic level of reciprocity from you that you assume they're getting elsewhere. Now I try to respond much more often, in a more timely way, to reach out and see how someone's doing or see if they'd like to get together, and pretty much to never bail on plans. This is a change for me after being on the other side, and I wish more people would make these efforts.
I just had a good friend—one that I spoke to throughout the day every day (long distance)—drop me without very much explanation. She said "this friendship just doesn't feel right to me." I'm an advocate that no one is obligated to provide an explanation, that they are nice-to-have, freely-given options that are useful for clarity. But not giving one here just feels so cowardly. The truth is that I was always on eggshells in this friendship, because I could tell that something I would say would trip some kind of invisible wire, and she would emotionally withdraw, and then over time with me be extra careful she'd slowly come closer again. I'd never quite understand what the misstep was or why it threatened our connection, and so I started living in fear that I'd misstep again. When I'm comfortable with someone, I'm a direct, boisterous, energetic, and at times a little brusk and blunt person. I'm not sheepish or un-opinionated. But I keep finding myself in friendships with people simply too sensitive for this. I feel like a bull in emotional china shops with friendships, and like conversations have to run on these scripts of tip-toeing and checking in. Trying to look for people with a little more "grit" as my therapist puts it.
Oh and for the record, this search for people with more grit is coming on the tail-end of two years working through my communication style in therapy and practicing a lot of tweaks and changes that clearly needed to happen on my end.
At some point during this whole pandemic shitshow, I realized I don't actually trust any of my friends with my whole self. They're not bad people and I don't blame them for my inability to show up, but it still hurts. Socializing feels painful because I'm not sure how to stop mirroring people's mannerisms and opinions, and it's exhausting. I know that's not healthy for me or my friends, but I'm not sure how to break the pattern.
My girlfriend and I are going through our first serious rough patch (long story short, I feel like I work harder than she does on both housework and feelings-management and I'm starting to resent that, and I've been acting like an asshole because of it). I'm reaching a breaking point and I need support, but I don't know what kind of support I need. I'm working on identifying my needs and wants in therapy, but it's slow going. I guess I just need permission to feel my "unacceptable" feelings in someone else's presence, but there's no one in my life besides my therapist who I trust enough.
Long story short, I'm lonely and angry and it's my own fault.
I found this happening to me in the past when I tried setting boundaries but wasn't good about enforcing them yet... I ended up wondering if there was any point to boundaries, since many people reacted so badly to it.
I started intentionally NOT setting boundaries, because then at least I wouldn't KNOW that the people around me didn't care about them. It seemed better at the time to assume they just didn't know, instead of feeling WORSE knowing they knew and just didn't care...
I'm now in a healthier place and trying again, but this is still a big fear for me!
When you consistently assert your boundaries, the benefits spread beyond the immediate approval or disapproval you encounter. Asserting your own desires and limits in the world is a way of reminding yourself that what you want matters and how you feel matters. For someone who grew up with porous boundaries (because parents/family insisted on transgressing those boundaries and children's preferences were treated as laughable to irrelevant), simply believe that your particular needs deserve respect and your enjoyment matters can feel revolutionary. Likewise, as long as other people's reactions and feelings re: your boundaries seem more important than your own feelings, that's an indication that at some core level, pleasing yourself feels exotic and selfish to you.
That said, setting boundaries isn't really a test, it's a way of life. You offer me something I don't want, I say no thank you. When everyone around you starts falling apart over simple assertions of what you want and need, that's a good indication that you're most comfortable around dismissive, avoidant people. You may also be allergic to secure, open people. I don't think an asshole filter is as useful a paradigm as the idea that you simply seek out people who aren't that open or direct and avoid people who are. The sea change that occurs when you start to notice people with healthy boundaries and open hearts is pretty huge. And as disappointing as it is that people you know won't all turn on a dime if they're used to pushing or transgressing your boundaries, part of caring for your own needs includes being good to yourself and not telling sad reflexive stories about how people are terrible and they never change. Living with uncertainty is also easier when you know that *you* aren't going to sacrifice what you need over and over for the sake of other people's opinions and preferences.
Does all this mean that we have to deal with our sad events alone, like deaths and divorces and health issues and other losses, so that we’re not going “on and on” to our friends, requiring them to have good boundaries and get off the phone quickly? I get you can’t expect endless support, and obviously no bad behavior, but is there no space any more for friendships being at least partial resources / containers for this kind of thing? Can we not expect this from friendships any more?
I’m the one typically listening, without good boundaries and I’ve paid for it...but I also truly like listening to people and supporting them. I want that in return. Is that something I shouldn’t expect?
Oh no! We can absolutely ask for help when we need it. A good friend with good boundaries can provide support and empathy without going down the hole with you. And they can gently call you on your own BS or when you're trying to hand over your bag of emotional poo so You don't have to deal with it. They will also be able to say, This is more than I can help you with. Please see a professional counselor or therapist - without this being an abandonment.
I think it's hard to help in any real way when you're always trying to be good. I always felt like I made people angry very easily so I had to try much harder than regular people to ACT NORMAL and FRIENDLY and HELPFUL. When you're living inside that space of oppressive duty, though, you don't act normal. You seem like an unhappy robot. People actually get MORE irritated with you. Accepting that you're just a flawed human being with some strong opinions and sharp edges who takes up a lot of space is the first step. Accepting that other people aren't always going to think you're doing it right helps. And finally? You stop trying so hard.
Nine times out of ten, you stop trying so hard and people around you immediately relax. They like you better this way. It's truly astounding. But first, you have to make peace with your new role as a regular person who doesn't always have to be friendly and cheerful and good. When you enter into situations with the attitude, "I am a complex human. This is just how I am," people tend to respect that and make space for it. But you have to own it before anyone else will.
I just said goodbye to my best friend of many years a few months ago. She violated my boundaries constantly-- even when I reinforced them in the moment. She is a great human being but I feel much more peaceful and a lot less anxious now. She allowed someone to verbally mistreat me in her home in August, and when I brought it up to her immediately after it happened and told her that it hurt my feelings, she brushed it off and acted like nothing happened. This continued into the next day: it seemed that she would not set a boundary with this friend she brought into her home so I let them know I did not appreciate the way they spoke to me. My friend then gaslit me and tried to convince me that nothing happened and I was crazy / overreacting. She even told me that she was hurt that I would come to her this way, accusing her of allowing someone to mistreat me. She said her friend, let's call them Joe, didn't say anything aggressive or rude to me because she asked Joe and he said he would never. This broke the camel's back. This was not the first time she gaslit me or told me 'you look crazy, how would you feel if someone came to you expressing their feelings like you just did? you would think they were nuts...'. She brushed off my anxiety and its effects on my mood / capabilities-- until she became anxious at the start of the pandemic and apologized for not being supportive enough when I started to spiral. She told me she did not want to talk with me about a MAJOR heartbreak / abusive relationship I went through because I looked crazy and we weren't going to agree on whatever she thought it was important for us to agree on. I was just looking for some consolation from my friend after being abused (and not knowing at the time that it was in fact abuse and not just a jerk hurting my feels). Again, she apologized and told me she can now empathize with what I went through because she was going through a similar situation with someone in the present (which is not true and pales in comparison). I think I've gotten pretty good at asking for what I need and setting boundaries with folks-- and even allowing flexibility with boundaries over time. People change, feelings change, etc. I'm also a fresh 30 years old and I know friendships are bound to shift and change, or even disintegrate. I just can't handle someone I care about constantly disregarding my needs in the name of friendship. I never thought about having to find a new playground with new people and muster up the moxi to make new pals. Sigh. During a hellish nightmare at that.
I'm sorry, that sounds exhausting. It sounds like it's time to give this friendship some space. You might come back together as friends in the future -- I mean, it does sound like your friend needs a lot of time to get up to speed with what's happening around her, emotionally. It also sounds like she's a little paranoid about looking crazy, seeming crazy, acting crazy, and tends to lump any conflict into the same "crazy" category due to her own insecurities about her buried issues. I mean, look, there are people who bury their baggage for decades. When you're open about what you need, their response is to shame you into the ground for it. Sometimes you have to play along in order to keep the peace -- I'm thinking of family, here, mostly, or friends who are like family. You take into account that someone is pretty shutdown or avoidant and you make an adjustment and expect less. But when close friends don't understand what you're saying (even when you're calm and not attacking) and don't have your back at all with other people? That's a clear sign that it's time to back up. Use that time to reflect on the kinds of friends you want in your life, and dare to believe that you'll find them.
That includes addressing your insecurities, of course, around how it feels to spend time with people who are functioning at a higher level than you are. I always throw this in, but it's so important to aim for great friendships and also NOTICE that if you're used to troublemakers and complainers, spending time with happy, high-functioning people can be downright bewildering. You'll learn a lot from it, though -- including the lesson that a lot of really healthy happy people have great boundaries, tolerate and navigate conflict smoothly, and don't let their insecurities lead them to distance themselves from a good friend in need.
The oddest thing has happened to my friendships over the course of the pandemic. I'm talking about the girlfriends that I would get together with regularly for a walk or a glass of wine or maybe lunch or dinner - the 8 or 10 women who I count on as my closest friends. All of these women live nearby and all know each other, if not as closely as I know them individually. In the first couple of months of COVID, there were regular emails and texts - some more serious, some humorous posts from wherever that we forwarded to each other. Around May or June, those kinds of connections started to dwindle. I still cared about my friends but there seemed to be a mutual stepping back. That has not changed. There have never been zoom or FT meetings and now it feels as if they are history. I actually do think that , when things are safer again, some of those friendships might be revived but IDK. I sort of miss them but I sort of don't.
What's equally interesting is how my on line friendships have grown. I have grown closer to a wide variety of people that I know only from Twitter. Most of these people I know b/c of shared interests_ books, poetry, art, hope, and some political connections. Somehow I have more contact and , generally quite real contact, with these distant connections than with the people I know IRL. I'm happy with that too.
I wonder if other people have experienced this reversal.
Honestly my reversal has been on folks I thought I was tight with online (hobby communities on instagram/twitter) where I just... burnt out. And it just started feeling... gross? Para mi, I think I need a balance of people time + online time to like create the horizon of connection, and when it gets out of whack, I see things differently. On the other hand, I've spent most of the last 6 months very, very alone by choice, going camping solo, on solo and distanced bike and road trips, etc. So communicating via letter, calls, emails, texts were the things that felt "real". Does that make sense?
I also honestly think people are in subconscious existential despair and trying to cope takes everything you have sometimes, and shit falls apart. That's sort of where I'm at: I love my friends and I'm in it to win it, but nothing's gonna feel right or good right now. In the Northern Hemisphere it's summer, and being outside, which involves being alone, is the thing keeping me going. Two cents. I'm curious to see if the "online things" I was VERY into at the beginning of March will resurge this winter. Right now it sort of sounds like something I do not want to do? Yeah.
Thanks for the response. I agree about the existential despair and that most of us are not even fully aware of that despair. I think it takes far more to simply keep our heads above water than we even know. Add in the civil unrest and political tumult in the US and there is even more despair. I am on the west coast which has been pummeled with unprecedented fires and smoke and I am fried. Pretty much everyone I know around here is.
I wish I could have been very, very, very alone but I am in a partnership that doesn't' easily allow for that. However, my partner is not much of an outdoors person but I am an outdoors person. My escape has been daily long bicycle rides (at dawn - the best time, IMO). I live in an area that has many hiking trails and beach trails. At the beginning of the pandemic all those trails were closed and I nearly completely lost it. They tell me there is this scary virus and everyone is going to die and then they close ALL the F-ing recreational areas. It was pretty bad but I found ways around it.
I think I like the online stuff b/c I don't have to put up an facade. I can be me. I will likely never meet these people and they don't know anything about me but what I choose to put up. It's nice to sort of start over?
hey there. this all sounds super hard, and I feel you. I know it may be trite, but Polly says this in the article that our friendships bend and twist and stretch in our transition periods in life. It sounds like you, certainly, are doing that in an intense way that is very different from hers! It makes so much sense this is hard on you, and perhaps I'm responding because I'm in a scenario where I'm on the other side - I have explicitly asked for space from a best friend (both queer) of 15 years. So I would say that, based on what you've said, she probably does know this is painful. I am so aware I have hurt my dear, dear friend and yet, I have to do this because shit has been too painful in our friendship, and our own VERY close/Ferrante type stuff never changed! In fifteen years!
So I guess I would say in the kindest way that you have made significant changes, and your transition probably does highlight where she is not changing in that way, and I think remembering that you need to focus on the movement forward, not the loss of backward, is good. It sounds like you love each other dearly, so why not assume you'll have five years of a changed closeness somewhere down the line? My friends who I have loved, bled, grieved with - we have all had time apart, fights, not liking each other. It's life, you know? And as someone watching a few close friends knot up their romantic relationships over COVID (marriage, kids, etc., while I remain odd duck etc), I'm ashamed to say it does hurt, and you do feel alone, and you're allowed to take that space as your lives inevitably cleave. I hope this is not too harsh, because I think it sounds like this may not be a forever loss. Hope, you know?
i have read this over so many times. thank you for writing this. i'm imagining that this is what my friend might say to me were she able. it is so hard, as you say so kindly. i think it's especially hard for me, as a woman who is deeply conditioned to feel responsible for how others feel -- regardless of whether or not it could be attributed to me -- to know how to say, I caused this, I didn't cause this. how to see separation as a function of fundamental difference and not as blame. i think it really may come down to how different we are as people and how different our styles of communication and our inner beliefs about ourselves and about others are. and i am having a hard time with this because i hate ambivalence, i like strong and stark and simple story lines both in fiction and in my own life. but as we get older and life gets increasingly unwieldy i can see the cracks in the story i am trying to tell myself. i think this is actually key to why we are growing apart -- i like triumphal narratives, it's part of why i fall in love so deeply, but she doesn't feel the same way about her attachments, and this makes her feel lost. but the truth is that there is no triumphal narrative even for me, or that what i try to spin as triumphal is just an unending, repetitive set of attempts to strain towards the light.
i am sorry that your friend made you feel the way she did, and that you don't always feel like an odd duck, or hurt, or alone. i'm proud of you for taking the space that you need. and thank you for your very kind and wise comments that this is just a part of life. i hope that we both find healing and those who can hold us in the ways that we need them to <3
Just a thought: your friend could be out of spoons/ bandwidth. Of course your original post is self-focused, but may be worth rewriting from scratch (eg, in a journal) as if, as someone who loves her, you're worried about her rather than grieving your (possibly temporary) loss. The empathy might help towards accepting change, yourself, and that ultimately we only control our end of any relationship, our response. Either way, sorry it sucks. I wish it didn't.
I also think that our compasses can get misaligned by our childhood experiences. We can feel "good" or "relief" when we enter a bad situation because it is familiar. It takes time and somatic work to realign the compass to true north.
Well put. I crave a lot of off-kilter situations because they feel like home, and it takes tons of time and patience to let people bring whatever they have and also look for the kinds of peole who might bring you what you actually need occasionally. I used to either act invincible or cry over the phone to people (years ago) and it wasn't that relaxing for them or me. In the past year I've figured out how to state my vulnerabilities more plainly and frequently so I'm not misrepresenting myself or looking like a fucking robot to people I want to connect with. I've also learned to be more patient and interested in earnest, loving people who would've sent me running for the hills in the past. Keeping your eyes open for new friends is so important, really, because it makes it easier to a) recognize traits that you crave in a friend while you also b) build your tolerance for your old friends and your family, with all of their particular quirks and, ahem, lifelong flaws. And the more you accept a wide range of flaws in others without judgment, the more you accept your own. Winning! It does take years, though. It's just slow. And the work is never really done. That's okay once you just accept it. Accepting it is still hard!
Good point for sure, I'm often appalled that I seem to only realize how uncomfortable (or closed off, or numbed out) I was after a friendship comes to an end.
It's so fucking hard! All of it, goddamn! I learnt a lot about boundaries when I was younger from volunteering at a suicide crisis line (the training was extremely good and taught me the difference between a difficult conversation and an unproductive one). What surprised me, and still continues to surprise me is how stunningly direct you can be with someone while still taking them seriously.
Telling a depressed person that they have talked themselves in circles and it would best for them to hang up to get on with their day sounds so awful and rude, doesn't it? And yet I disobeyed every value about politeness I was raised with, followed the crisis line policies and did it lovingly, and it was taken as such, and I still can't believe I pulled it off. That's a slightly more controlled, intense environment than everyday life but it has stuck with me for years, and reminds me that honesty isn't as scary as overriding the discomfort.
Hi, thank you for sharing this so much. I've been at a loss feeling like a "bad person" or a "bad friend" for setting boundaries with friends with mental health diagnoses. Feel like I'm never giving enough or I always feel desperate to say the right thing that I end up overthinking or putting in way too much work. I feel like I sometimes enter the dark space with them, take on their feelings for the, then forget my own way out and get overwhelmed. I love people but because I don't know what I'm doing with myself I feel like I have to push them away.
Sometimes just setting a boundary inside your mind helps -- knowing when you're available and when you're not, understanding how long you want to be on the phone, and recognizing when someone is just occupying a teenager-like state of resistance that doesn't allow room for another person's influence or input. Sometimes people invite you into their puzzle just to tell you that everything you're adding to the picture is BAD and NOT IT. That's when I tend to move back into a space of "I know this is really hard" or "You're feeling shitty, I hear that loud and clear and I'm sorry."
But I also try to mention my time limits (I have to make dinner in 20 minutes), and stay alert to how present I feel in the conversation. If I'm getting impatient or drifting, I'm not going to be much help.
I also sometimes think "Okay, this friend is like a once-a-week call friend, and this other friend is probably an hour twice a week." That would sound all wrong to me a few years ago, but I have a lot of friends and I want to be thoughtful about how I split up my time. I have to think clearly about which friends need my help sometimes, which friends are doing fine, and which phone calls bring me life and which ones drain me. I'm okay with SOME DRAINING! People aren't always bringing amazement and wonder into your world. But that's all the more reason why looking at the big picture and understanding what you want from your friendships can make you feel so much more empowered and also connected to the people in your life.
The worst case scenario is that you take a few draining friendships and you allow them to color all of your friends as burdensome. I used to do that a lot when I was younger. It's not fair to anyone, and it springs from an inability to assert yourself and take care of yourself.
This! One of my best friends calls me every so often after 11PM and for years I would take the calls and then get so stressed that I couldn't sleep. But I felt like a bad friend for not answering a distressed phone call. Now I just call back the next morning.
this is amazing, do you have an article or book that you can pass along that talks about this communication style
It's a lot of active listening mainly, which is a lot of what most counsellors or therapists do. All I was really doing was reminding callers of the crisis lines boundaries, without mincing my words. To be honest I had to learn to trust my gut on whether someone was talking cathartically or not and I won't pretend it was ever easy. Scary as fuck sometimes!
I remember years ago I was in a bad place and I wrote to several friends about it. They all answered very pragmatically, suggesting courses of action when what I wanted was some empathy, some warmth and comfort. I found myself feeling so hurt but I realized that I had created the situation. I had attracted pragmatic friends and I had kept them at arm's length. We had no history together of my being vulnerable so they responded as they thought I wanted. But even seeing that, it's taken me many years to shift my disordered attachment and fear of vulnerability. I am still on the path of it. My difficulties and deep hurt have made me feel so tender toward human beings. What pain we carry!
I don't have an answer but man I have some friends that are huge sucks of time and attention and I'm torn between my "Oh god, not now" reaction when I see a message or something from them and believing as one of their few/only friends, I can't just ditch them because that's not cool.
Making an internal commitment to do x amount - talk on the phone for an hour a week, see someone every two weeks - sometimes helps. You know you're not being a complete asshole but you also feel like you have some control over how you spend your time. Some friendships do become mostly obligation at times, but when you know you're respecting your own needs, that frees you up to show up in limited doses. And when you do show up and you're feeling good about it, that affects the energy of the conversation. You might be surprised at how well it goes, in fact, once you feel lighter because you're not doing too much or contemplating disappearing anymore.
This is good advice, thanks. (That reads sarcastic, but isn't).
If only more folks could take such good care of themselves!
Who are these people who constantly reach out to you (general you)? I've only known those who ignore me forever
Thank you for making yourself so accessible during this time. You are so smart and wise and fucking awesome. I love you💕
I'm an only child, and had a mostly positive but boundary-less relationship with my mom for most of my life. Once I finally gave myself permission to set boundaries with her, all of my relationships improved. I finally trusted my own needs and feelings instead of looking to her (or others) for approval / instruction, and became so much better at asking for what I want without shame. When I first started setting them-- which began by me telling her that I didn't want to discuss my dating life with her for a set period of time-- she was angry and hurt. But, after re-setting that boundary several times, we finally broke out of our bad dynamic and into a better one. She and I are still close, and sometimes we even fall back on old patterns, but she trusts and respects me in ways she didn't before. Boundaries are a blessing.
Wow, I'm impressed by this! I've gone through this with my own mom and I've managed to set certain boundaries but still struggle a lot when what she wants from the relationship vs what I want are very very different.
Haha thank you! Re-reading my comment now and realizing I made it sound simpler and easier than it actually was/is. We're in a good spot now but I fully anticipate these issues resurfacing if/when I have a long-term partner or children. What I guess I was trying to say with this, and didn't really say clearly, is that beginning to create boundaries in that central, foundational relationship almost instantly made my other relationships much healthier too
That makes sense! Working on my relationship with my mom definitely set me up to identify and find a good relationship with others and especially my partner, even if our relationship continues to be super challenging.
The nebulous way we define friendships doesn't help either -- how tragic for all parties involved when one person wants a much deeper/more invested friendship than theother. Can be very difficult to manage expectations without having romance-like "Defining The Relationship" conversations.
Yes! Life would be so much easier if we (societally) had room for these "DTR" conversations in our platonic friendships.
Yes! Something I've come to is that relationships are all a gradient. There are lots of places they can fall between "acquaintance" and "life partner" and it's not so well defined.
Exactly! The possibilities for feeling shame are just too huge. I still feel like I don’t know true status of one or two long-term connections. And as I keep hearing, you’re supposed to stay positive and not seem needy and accept what the relationship is, even if it’s not clear I guess?
This week's column made me think - especially this part:
"It’s humbling to realize that your damage probably matches your friends’ damage on some level, it just manifests itself in different ways."
I too have struggled maintaining friendships in the past, but I'd like to think that I'm generally good at understanding that I'm flawed and biased and have deep insecurities. What frustrates me is when friends can't meet me there - I say something to myself like "why do I have to be the only one that's reflecting on what I did wrong here and how I could be a better friend? You're not doing any reflecting!" I've found this with some ex-friends even when mustering up the courage to have those difficult boundaries conversations.
Although I can zoom out and see why some ex-friendships just weren't right, I do wonder "is it me?" How do you know when your boundaries are serving you or when you're just not being a flexible enough friend?
I have lived in 3 states in 10 years. This means that most of my friendships are long distance and rely on text and phone calls, especially more so in the pandemic. I struggled with this pre-covid and I am especially struggling with this now, because so many of my friendships seem to have unspoken conflicts or minor breakdowns that seem related to the incompleteness of a text exchange. Tone is hard to convey over a typed message, you know? I struggle to admit I need more from a friendship because I feel like you need to accept your friends as they are.
Texting falls apart so easily. People have completely different styles that often don't match up well. Asking to switch to phone calls is good. I've had people ask me to switch and it's made the friendship much deeper. I also think it's good to just keep yourself open to phone calls right now. I can get avoidant about getting on the phone, but it's good for me to do it every day so I recognize that it's actually much lower pressure than texting or Zooming. Anyway, I get it and I'm sorry! I hope you can coax these friends onto the phone more often. Sometimes just texting HEY WANT TO TALK? out of the blue is better than mapping it out, as long as you don't take it too personally when someone doesn't happen to be free.
Since the pandemic, I have really gotten into the "hey, are you free for a phone chat right now" text! I love to send it and I love to receive it, and the more you do it, the less awkward it is to send or receive a no! I also like it because a scheduled phone call, at least for me and my friends, seems to have at best a 50% chance of actually happening. Usually one of us bails, or is like "actually can we push it to 3:30" and then the other person is like "no, I have another thing to do" and then you go back and forth for a thousand years trying to find another time that someone will also bail on. No more of this. Just a nice "hey, are you free to chat RIGHT NOW YES OR NO?"
I loved this week’s column, & think the idea of boundaries & clearly expressing them goes in all ways. I had a friend for years for whom I was always the one listening & supportive & giving advice, because I didn’t set boundaries - & this was fine in a certain way for a while, until I myself went through a trauma & needed support. Suddenly, the roles had shifted & not only did I need to set boundaries on how much of her load I could take on, but I needed support, which she wasn’t prepared to give. What ended the friendship, however, was her inability to say that she couldn’t support me in the ways I was asking - she would say “Yea of course I can [invite you out/come over/help you socialise/whatever]” - but literally never would. But the promises kept coming, to the point where I felt gaslit. And when I finally broke & pointed this out, she felt attacked, because she couldn’t express her boundaries or hear mine. The idea of boundaries felt like conflict or an attack, instead of something that would help us both understand each other’s limits.
This is so familiar to me. Exerting boundaries directly isn't actually that common, so people often mistake it for an attack when you're actually being vulnerable by saying *this is what I want, can you give it?* I do think that gentle requests and patience are a good call with friends who aren't accustomed to showing up and supporting YOU IN PARTICULAR. We all get used to behaving in different ways with different friends, and if you get into a rut with a friend, it does take time to shift gears. In one old friendship, I said, "I'd really like X." The friend disappeared for a while, reappeared, and then started to do the thing I asked for almost a year later. That's pretty extreme, but with old friendships that feel more like sibling relationships, sometimes it pays to slow down and accept that low self-esteem or a fragile grasp of intimacy can make people behave in a wide range of ways under pressure. Bottom line, though: Asserting boundaries is challenging! And it doesn't always work. But at some point, if you don't feel like you have a right to ask for what you want, that squats on your whole damn life, not just your friendships.
This was exactly my experience. “Friends don’t have boundaries,” was what she ended up spitting at me. But the real messed up part is that I’m the one that looked like I abandoned her in the middle of a crisis, when in fact the crisis has been going on for several years, I had unfailingly helped her those years, including flying at drop of hat to London for 3 weeks to help her take care of new twins when her trauma relationship hit another snag. I was in a health crisis that she couldn’t understand / validate and I just burned out. So I’m the flake. Still makes me sad.
Your phrase "showing up" has always been so evocative for me. My form of not showing up in friendships mostly corresponds to giving too much and/or giving performances. I was never a girl like most other girls, which I experienced as heartbreaking. It's like my mind was always different. I always wanted to be lighter and softer and more extroverted and fun, and instead I am serious and logical. I like science-y things and I know my own mind. Being different meant that I didn't fit in well as a child, so I was always looking for a new friend with the determination that I was going to try really really hard this time to be someone that my friend would like. I didn't fit in well at home either, which really amplified the screwed-upness of it all. My logical dad liked having a serious, smart daughter, but my mother did not, and she also felt threatened by the similarities that my father and I shared. My non-girly nature had made me the girl that even her mother didn't love.
As an adult, I have a successful career and a husband who (unbelievably to me) loves me. Still, I feel like I have this sharpness inside that I must constantly try to wrap in cotton because I know what will happen if any of my few friends brushes up against its edges: in the very next instant, I will find that I'm completely alone. The effort of this is so exhausting and stressful -- and it feels doomed to fail anyway, like it's just a matter of time until I drive them away. I'm always touched by your discoveries around living as who you truly are, and sometimes I feel flurries of hopefulness that I can do that too. I struggle, though, with the deep wells of sadness that my real self is so difficult for other people, and I feel afraid of the isolated life that I imagine is ahead.
Just want to say that the feeling of having sharpness inside and struggling to form connections, especially as a young girl, absolutely resonates with me. To this day, things that make me feel like people don't understand the things bouncing around in my mind, and therefore don't understand me, are big triggers of that childhood wound. You're not alone in feeling alone.
But as I got older, I found a good group of people who like me and my weird brain that is serious and logical and sometimes pessimistic and cutting. I don't know that any of them think exactly like me but it works. Some of them also have that sharpness inside, and we can expose that to each other and tell each other what we're mad about, and bitter about, and what we're striving toward. Some of them do not have that sharpness--they are soft and fun and sensitive--but together we have interesting conflicting conversations on where on minds overlap and diverge. Sometimes they tell me they appreciate my directness and sharpness! Sometimes, I need to mind those soft and fun peoples boundaries...I CAN be overbearing and critical and blunt! But that's the beauty of boundaries--they help me understand who can engage with me in what way, and not feel like I need to carefully construct the viewports through which friends can see the "real" me.
I understand your advice about asking for what you want. Here's my issue: I don't like it when my friends assert boundaries or ask for what THEY want (I am feeling shame that I don't like it when ppl assert boundaries). I guess it makes me feel criticized/that I can't be myself?
For example, one of my friends said she doesn't like us talking about my crushes. (she's never had a crush, and I LOVE talking about my crushes). Now I just feel bad hanging out with her. I don't like upholding her boundaries, I guess, and that is bad. I actually want to stop hanging out with her now because I feel like I have to hide who I am.
I don't like when my friends ask for what they want so I rarely ask for what I want.
Thanks for being so honest, this is such an important point! Before I learned how to ask for what I wanted, I hated it when people asked me for what they wanted, too. I felt inadequate when they'd say things like "I want to go out shopping but you're such a stick in the mud!" or "You always throw big parties but I like quiet dinner parties!" or "I can't really handle someone crying to me on the phone." (lol, I went through a big "call your friends and cry!" phase that I'm not sure I'd recommend across the board.) Basically, I took everything personally. When someone had a preference, that felt like a judgment on my character.
I guess it's possible to stay in that space forever, but I have to tell you, it's much easier and more relaxing to work on accepting exactly who you are while also allowing other people to be who they are. Your friend who doesn't like talking about crushes might be a very assertive person in other ways you dislike and that's the heart of the problem. But if you like talking to her about a lot of stuff INCLUDING crushes, it might be possible to comply with her request without seeing your love of crushes as a flaw. (I loooooove talking about crushes myself.) Plenty of people like talking about crushes! You can talk to her about other stuff and still get your needs met, I'm sure of it.
When you accept who you are and feel comfortable with being a flawed human with needs, you can go out into the world and meet a wide range of people and meet them on common ground. You can shop with your shopping friends and lie around doing nothing with your hermit friends. A direct expression of preferences is not personal. Just yesterday, I was telling a friend of mine that I like to make a plan in advance because otherwise I'll get wishy washy about it in the final stretch. She was like "I hate planning anything, I like to play everything by ear and I bail on anything and everything when I don't feel like doing it." This was information that I found very useful to know! In the past, I would've thought, "Fuck her, she shouldn't bail on people like that! And she should learn to make a fucking plan!" But I didn't have that thought at all. I just thought "DAMN it's strange how different people are." And my reasons for planning were actually the same as her reasons for not planning: she's afraid she won't be in the mood when the day of the plan rolls around.
People's preferences aren't personal. Your preferences aren't flaws. The more you accept who you are without shame, the easier it'll be to hear someone tell you what they want without taking it as a verdict on your character.
Thank you for reading and responding! "When you accept who you are and feel comfortable with being a flawed human with needs, you can go out into the world and meet a wide range of people and meet them on common ground." This is something I do need to work on...I don't make friends very easily because I see so many flaws in myself and others.
It's definitely an ego thing for me. Something I didn't mention is that someone voicing their preferences also hits a "I don't like being told what to do" bell.
"I want to go out shopping but you're such a stick in the mud!" <- if someone said that to me I'd find it so rude!
Yeah, it is kind of rude! I just think I spent years taking everything people said to me and wanted from me personally. Once I started to forgive myself for being who I was at a deep level, I started to notice that I was often casually rude and also weirdly confrontational with people in ways that I, myself, would have experienced as rude.
I mean, to be honest, I was prone to feeling weird when people said goodbye in a rushed way, just a few years ago. Like it felt like *rejection* to me. Once you start tuning into that level of, well, HALLUCINATION that lives inside you, it makes you reevaluate a lot of your preferences and sensitivities. And once you're clear on the forces acting on you (due to the challenges of your distant past), then you can assert the *important* preferences while letting things that once *felt* rude but really aren't a big deal slide a little more.
Getting clarity about what really matters to you a lot and what doesn't necessarily matter that much is crucial, and that *depends* on boundaries. As long as no one is supposed to have boundaries and everyone is supposed to take whatever whenever in every situation, you just have a mob of people stepping on each other's toes and silently resenting it and feeling weird. It's nice for everyone to have a voice, you know? It depends on trust and understanding, of course. But a lot of people are able to build trust quickly, once they understand that you have clear sight and there's not a lot of resentment in play. I mean, to me, the more you're able to say no and maintain boundaries, the less resentment you experience.
Anyway, that's a lot! Thanks a lot for diving in with such a great comment. xo
Social distancing and remote work have thrown my struggles with asking for things I need into high relief. I reach out rarely anyway but now seize with extra tenacity on any implication that the friend, colleague, or supervisor I want to contact or need to ask for information does not have time for my questions or tolerance for my feelings and then feel unable to inquire about normal and necessary aspects of my work or to explain to friends that I feel I can't approach them. I feel wrong and doomed to be a nuisance, always my worst fear and now often out of control. Suggestions appreciated.
You have to try very hard to look at these anxieties and see how they multiply when you simply proceed *assuming* yourself to be a nuisance. This is an opportunity to examine all of your fundamental views of yourself, tracing them back to your original experiences of identity and selfhood as a kid. There's a way that these conditions are triggering your childhood traumas or wounds or issues, and until you link the current circumstances to the past, it'll be hard to see clearly the ways that your assumptions about yourself detract from your interactions with others. Considering that all of this stuff is sort of ruling your existence at the moment, I'd recommend getting a therapist you can do televisits with. This crisis is offering you an opportunity to sort through your habits and patterns of interaction and you have some time and space to learn a lot from it, but you have to welcome that learning process, which is bound to be humbling and intense. I know that I've learned a lot over the past few months and phew, a lot of it has been brutal. Trying hard to invite this humbling and get into a vulnerable space about what you need is important. Also, knowing that you *DESERVE* to be loved and are lovable right now, exactly as you are, is crucial. You have to build your faith in that -- and it is really about faith at first, rather than evidence. You just decide that all people are worthy of love and you resolve to view yourself as one of them, no matter what feedback or rejection you encounter along the way. Tuning out rejection and tuning into your belief system is super fucking difficult. I know that very well. But the more you do it, the better you're going to feel. Just don't forget to focus some time on empty, grounding, restorative tasks that have nothing to do with the self, too: exercise, reading, cooking, focusing on your body in space without judgment - basic animal stuff that is vehemently not about self-consciousness or intellectualizing.
Anyway, I'm sorry that it's been so terrible. Best of luck with this, I know it's a lot but it's time to take this shit by the throat and wrestle it to the ground once and for all. It's okay to be here. Be good to yourself and know that grappling with big challenges right now is the norm, not the exception.
It means so much to me to receive this personal response from you, and I am taking your words to heart. (I also remembered another of your columns I wanted to reread--this one, https://www.thecut.com/2020/05/ask-polly-why-do-my-friendships-always-fade-away.html--which is one reason I knew I could trust you on this and was excited that you opened up a discussion on it.) You made my day, and I know you're right. Thank you!
Same here
I have a similar experience, & can empathize, if that helps.
It does, because I feel ignored and miserable. Thank you.
I feel like I know what it's like to feel deeply lonely and misunderstood that I try to be so good & understanding & perhaps emotionally overextending (??) to other people. Only to feel like I'm not getting back that energy (because other people actually have their boundaries?). I know my friends show me love in other ways... but I get jealous when I see friends live EVERYTHING for their partners but seem to do the bare minimum intimacy in their friendships. I feel needy. But I guess it's time for me to branch out and make new friends, pursue people and hobbies that will lead me to feel fulfilled. I feel like I am definitely avoidant though and scared of people and things that seem interesting to me. And I feel like I minimize myself to let others flourish but I'm also scared of being "too much" and leaning into my "craziness" because I won't get that care in return.
Alcohol is a real tricky thing.
I used to party a ton, beginning in college and up through my late 20s. After a bad breakup in which my partner's drug use was really scarring, I examined my own use. Felt I needed a change. Scaled back a lot. Also happened to get into a serious, happy relationship and settled into a cozy nest. As a result I discovered that I am not actually extroverted - I was just charmingly tipsy and flirtatiously single many nights a week for almost a decade. I struggle with my new modest introverted personality. I have a lot of friendships that were formed during my charmingly tipsy single stage and I struggle to connect the same way. I need a lot of alone time these days, sure, but it's also like I lost interest in sharing my day/week/month with some of my friends and I can't really figure out why.
I would resist the urge to treat this as a binary situation: "I used to be extroverted but only with booze, now I'm introverted and I don't connect with people as easily." Your old personality is still there, without the alcohol, it's just a matter of accepting the full scope of who you are without judgment, and learning to show up and connect with people under a wide range of circumstances, without fear or shame. You're avoidant, mostly likely, so you tend to equate socializing with pressure and tend to fear doing it wrong or being a disappointment to others. Maybe you get very focused on how well you're doing, how happy other people are with you, whether or not they approve of you, whether or not you have enough to say. You put too much pressure on yourself, in other words.
But plenty of people socialize by just showing up with nothing and waiting to see where the moment takes them. It's possible to give a lot less and perform a lot less (the way you did when you drank) and still feel connected to others. But you have to work on your tolerance for silence and space and not having anything to say immediately. Once you accept these things, other people will, too. I just wouldn't sum up your situation like "I was x, now I'm y." Because your past charming self who likes attention is still around, and probably wouldn't mind coming out now and then to have some fun. The alcohol part might be less of a prerequisite than you think, once you notice your avoidant tendencies and work harder to accept the full scope of who you are.
thank you. you're spot on when you say " you get very focused on how well you're doing, how happy other people are with you, whether or not they approve of you, whether or not you have enough to say", sometimes my partner's brother and his wife call us (and his wife is my good friend!!) and I often am like OH GOD now I have to be CHARMING and CARRY THIS CONVERSATION ON MY BACK, I don't know why I am like that. I never feel that way with my family and my partner, and even some specific friends that are just for some reason easy to connect with, but with everyone else, its performance time. Working on my tolerance for silence, space, awkwardness, letting the other person try to chime in, all seems like the way to go. Thank you Heather.
So glad I could help! I go through phases like this, too, where I expect myself to carry everyone on my back, mostly just out of an anxious need to please. I try to watch that people pleasing compulsion and that anxious energy closely and remind myself to chill the fuck out and sit back and let the conversation come to me. The weird thing is that often, underneath my anxious compulsion to be "good," I'm confident and calm and I believe in myself. I just have to take a breath and clear away that archaic STATIC in order to notice who I actually am.
I’ve been thinking about what we owe our friends all pandemic. My college roommates and I are all taking leaves of absence this year and they automatically assumed we’d all live together somewhere. That was not my vision. They are pack animals and, of course, I love the pack. But I also want to keep making new friends and bringing new people into my life. Sometimes I feel as if I owe it to the pack to invite them (all 5 of them) along for every adventure before anyone else. It’s what they’d do for me. But do I owe them that? Is it really disloyal to pursue other friendships? What do they even expect? Annoyances I have with these friends so quickly take on a sharper edge because I have chosen to be more separate from the group, even while maintaining very close individual relationships with everyone. I’m really afraid of creating difference where there isn’t any between these friends and I, but I’m really turned off by being a part of such an intense squad that has to OK it’s actions with the group.
Expecting to invite all five people everywhere isn't sustainable. And everyone in the world should ALWAYS feel free to pursue other friends. With a group that gets this restrictive in its expectations, I think it's important to say these things out loud OFTEN, to everyone, in the most calm, gentle, accepting, positive tone possible, before drama kicks up. You have to announce that you're going to respect your own desires outside of the group, and that adults don't pressure each other into a padded, airless cell together. (Okay maybe don't say it that way! Heh, see how good I am at this?) The more you calmly state your intentions without blame or finger-pointing, the more these friends will slowly adjust and put you into your own category. They might even respect you more for it. But who knows? Groups can operate in craaaaaaazy ways. Don't let yourself lose sleep over their weird fixation on rules and solidarity, though. You're free and you don't want a small, cloistered life and maybe you also prefer one-on-one interactions some of the time. Own that without apology and try to move into a compassionate space where you still feel for them but you take their disapproval less seriously.
I'm a 30 year old woman, and I have floated in and out of girl groups in my early 20s. I learned quickly in my youth that I am not interested in being part of a pack. What that meant for me is that I am not interested in suppressing my individuality for the group dynamic. I am too selfish and too impulsive to live my life supporting people I am not even sure I love with my whole heart. I may be being severely unfair, but when I look at instagram and see the packs living on - being each other's bridesmaids, posting on each other's birthdays, I feel no regret! None! In fact I feel a tiny bit of schadenfraude, which is a whole nother thing I should examine (am I a bitch?))). As a loner, I moved cross country, lived in four cities through my 20s, and have cultivated individual friendships with deep meaning and alignment to my values. Sometimes in lonely or frustrating moments, the ease of having A Group feels attractive to me, but I know that it's not really what I want.
Thank you for this. I have never liked going along with the crowd and have never heard it put so eloquently. I'm currently being shunned by my in-laws and instead of making me sad, I'm quite giddy. I love my husband and my son, but I'm not really into the hazing that is required to be a part of that tribe. I've been terrible about boundaries with them up until recently and this feels very freeing.
Your intense squad is my dream friendship. How does one find such a pack? I'm 39 and never managed more than non-committal individual friendships
Same same
Argg, this topic. I feel like - maybe like everyone, given the demands of the pandemic - I’ve struggled with friendship this year. I think perhaps one hard thing is that I don’t generally set boundaries well and have been practising doing so more (not during the most ideal circumstances, sure) and have often just encountered friends getting annoyed at this. I find it hard to sit with this as I don’t do well with people being angry at me and the moment someone gets angry, I automatically act like their mood is my problem to fix. Any tips on how to let your friends be angry and that be OK?
I guess I'd ask why you think you experience friends' anger as your responsibility. Were you raised to believe that other people's emotions were somehow your duty to fix? There's a lot of shame in play, enforcing that kind of belief, telling you that you're a failure unless everyone is happy with you at all times. So I'd probably work on that belief system and interrogate that shame. When I was locked into a similar mindset, I felt burdened and angry and guilty a lot of the time, because I felt like I was just bad at being a friend and bad at being a daughter and that created a lot of insecurity and blame aimed at others. But I also felt like a faucet that got turned on and off by other people. It was my job to give people what they wanted, whenever they wanted it.
This will sound absurd, but I've found it helpful to imagine myself as an appliance that doesn't work anymore. I do not make life more convenient for you. I am a mess of twisted metal that throws off smoke and sparks. I wrote an Ask Molly about this:
https://askmolly.substack.com/p/loss
Sometimes I have to move into an extreme state of Bartleby-like defiance, embracing my own negativity and stubbornness, in order to redefine how I want to live. Not everyone loves this about me, of course! But it's mostly just a transitional state, one that's dramatic enough to shake things up. Because saying "I should do what other people want a lot less so I can tell what I want" is all well and good, but sometimes you just... DON'T DO IT. You're too used to serving others. Proclaiming to YOURSELF "I am taking a break, I am serving no one but myself for a week," gives you an actual taste of how it feels to steer your life based on your own desires for a change, without wondering how other people will feel about it.
Friends who get angry the second you assert gentle boundaries might be friends who aren't accustomed to respecting you. Blaming or attacking them won't gain you more respect. Learning to respect yourself and assert your own boundaries from a distance is a way of taking up a new kind of space in the world, one that tells people that your needs and desires matter, and you're not bending yourself into different shapes by request anymore. Compassion helps: "I am a broken appliance. I forgive you for feeling disappointed in that. However, this is just how I am now. I hope you'll eventually understand."
Thanks for this kind and insightful reply. I wrote this far more breezily than I experience it! The reality is I tend to get an irrational, primal sort of throat prickle of panic when confronted with a close friend's anger and then my brain just shuts off. But somehow you've managed to cover everything I was feeling despite my brief first post. I agree, it's definitely about how I was raised, it was often implied that I was responsible for my parents' bad moods if they were feeling unhappy, and that's bled into the rest of my relationships. I love the idea of using Bartleby as a starting point. Plus taking a week off people-pleasing sounds good too.
I'm a clingy and compulsive replier, or I often have been, and have long felt (in some friendships) that I'm always the one wanting their friendship and it's not reciprocated. During the first lockdown, I actually pretty much ignored/replied quite uninterestedly to a few of my older friends who I didn't have great relationships with. I feel bad for doing that, but I noticed that I too am very capable of avoiding replying when I don't feel like it. I'm trying to consider my attitude to other people and what I really want(ed) from relationships.
In terms of reaching out for support, this has been extremely difficult, but in general I rarely do it. I was living across the continent from most of my friends from 2018 until the start of the pandemic, and I met up with one of my friends this summer (who I'd seen maybe twice when I was back home for holiday), and told them that I had had a really hard time moving away on my own and being in a totally different place with no support. But they were surprised, because I'd just never said how I was feeling or what was going on, even over messenger. It's a bit of a common theme with me, and I notice that I'm upset that people don't reach out and ask me how I am, or share their difficulties and feelings with me, even though I never share my vulnerabilities with them.
I'm now in the position of wanting a) to meet some new people and b) to strengthen some existing friendships that I think are good relationships overall. a) won't happen for a while but b) is possible, it's just terrifying. I've been at a really low-ebb for the last few weeks, mostly due to stuff beyond my control. I'd like to reach out to friends and ask if they have some time to talk, and tell that I'm not doing well, but I don't trust that they want to hear from me or that they wouldn't see it as a burden - most of my friends have close relationships or partners, so it really feels like I'm just putting loads of stuff on them if I tell them about my problems. The terrible/maybe good part is that I know exactly how damaging my habit of not sharing anything is, but I'm also fighting against myself and giving myself myriad reasons not to be straight with people about how awful I feel about different areas of life.
For a long time I’ve been the friend that gave too much and got too little. I was afraid or ashamed to ask.
A tiny bright light for fellow readers: for the first time in my life (I’m in my late 30s) I’ve got a couple of solid friendships. We both feel like we got the better end of the deal, we have real and tough conflicts about vulnerable-feeling things, and what matters most is that we care for each other and want to understand each other and solve things together. I recently got out of a pretty toxic relationship and these friendships are giving me room to be myself without as much fear or shame, to be able to practice setting boundaries and asking for what I want, and getting to feel like a legitimately worthy human. And it’s a two way street. It’s pretty damn amazing. And a relief. Thanks for the moment to reflect and, for once, celebrate.
God I love your advice. So fucking much.
I have a bit of a problem. But I think its slightly common. I have terrible fibromyalgia (and Im only 24!), which sort of halted my need and well, want for partying. Given bouts with medication and a really bad drug trip & a slightly emotionally abusive ex, all mixed with chronic pain - I also lost my zest or desire to drink much. I developed this odd fear of losing consciousness or altered reality. (Going to therapy) but as a result of this all I paused drinking. This means there are many parties, hangouts that I stopped going to. One of my closest friends is a huge party animal. And has the best time drinking and living it up. She could go on for days w/o sleep, rest and just alcohol and still be dancing endlessly. We became friends before my days of chronic pain and during my days of self hate. Which means shes had a taste of drinking and partying with me. Theyre fond memories, I did have a lot of fun and I cherish them. But, I dont want to do those things anymore. I get tired 3 hours maybe into hanging out with someone. I need to go to bed or my pain just skyrockets and I feel sick. I dont drink and party. We do still have fun, we eat, cook, talk, sing (well, she sings), make breakfast etc. But everytime she asks me if Im up to party and I say no (I also am not a fan of the people she insists on partying with. Some of my old ex friends who were dicks to me. Shes still friends with them) she gets this forlorn look on her face of devastation and i start feeling super guilty. As if im boring and she just doesn't have the same fun with me and keeps expecting it. That sends me in a spiral of hate and remorse, which is already bad because of the realisation that there are some things I wont be able to do due to chronic pain. And then I see her just having the time of her life with her other friends that she parties and hang out with. Theres this happiness on her face that I feel like, isnt there with me. I migjt be overthinking this, Im aware. Because she loves me so dearly and always comes visit me before her boyfriend even when she comes back to our city (has been living in another city for a while). But I constantly feel this over rising guilt. As if I should be doing something im not. As if im boring. Even though, im not. I dont think so, at least. Argh. This feeling sort of really sucks, Aunt Polly.
One more post from greedy ole me - I moved from one (cool, western) city to another (cool, mountain) city to move in with my partner. In my new city (which is big, and ripe with opportunity to eat, and dance, and work out, and connect) I have two IRL friends from long ago and both are down to hang, but other than that how the FUCK does one make new friends when we're still social distancing and winter is coming??
On top of this uprooted discontent, a year ago I had a feud with my partners bff's partner, who was interested in being my friend, over her culturally insensitive art (like nearly every other festival goer//travel girl she was appropriating my culture for AestheticTM) and I feel really disinterested in giving that group/relationship another chance even though we live really close by and could be easy/good/casual friends, which makes me feel EXTREMELY bitchy but also makes me feel like as a woman of color I always have to take this extra step of vetting before I can determine if someone can create a safe space with me, and honestly it just feels exhausting to have to try and build a social life all over again.
I’ve often struggled with a co-dependent dynamic in relationships/friendships. Boundaries come from after you’ve either tapped out of your tank or used someone as a crutch in your decision making. Maintaining the bond goes both ways. Letting each other breathe into your own way but playing a supporting role is what I’ve discovered has worked over the years.
I am still working on boundaries, both setting my own and respecting other people's. Covid-19 killed my dad this summer and I'm supposed to be going on a desperately-needed girls trip next weekend. I'm taking it personally that everyone going isn't automatically and unquestioningly willing to do whatever I ask in terms of infection prevention (i.e. two tests 72 hrs apart and mask wearing whenever we're indoors and in the same room as someone else). But I'm at least speaking up about it rather than secretly stewing :-/ Friendship is indeed hard.
Also this is my first comment on your substack and probably every subsequent one for the foreseeable future will be about my dead dad? Blech.
Your comment about taking and giving without boundaries as being two sides of the same coin really hit for me.
I definitely grew up in the model of giving-giving-giving, and it made figuring out and then establishing those boundaries so hard. Add a formative, emotionally abusive relationship in, and I created embedded patterns that I'm still unraveling in my healthy relationships years later. It's hard work both drawing boundaries with how I relate to others, but also drawing boundaries for myself, and redefining my agency. I still sometimes find myself shook when something old comes up--If I had to draw black and white categories in those moments, I would probably be the "toxic" one. I'm getting better but it's a continual process, I suppose is what I'm saying.
I have a friend who will go weeks in between responding to my texts now (sometimes I do this--life is hard right now!) but I've just been trying to check in every so often. She confessed that one of the reasons she hasn't been reaching out is that she worries that she is burdening me because she herself has a really hard time saying no to things. I felt a little lovingly exasperated!
I don't want her to assume that I wouldn't ask for space when I needed it--I feel pretty good at saying no to things now and I'm proud of it. But I also want her to understand that it's about me, not her, and not take any boundaries as a personal read on her character. And I heard that she was maybe needing to draw a boundary of her own, but wasn't able to be clear on it just then...It's unclear boundaries all the way down! I adore this friend, but I worry that I need to anticipate the feelings she's not voicing, and I really try not to act on my predictions of what's in another messy human's head anymore.
Polly, you are right. Friendship IS hard, especially in these weird weird times.
One of my closest, longest friendships has been drifting apart the last few years and the pandemic has made it worst. I've been doing a lot of work in therapy and I feel like I'm as close to my authentic self as I've ever been. With her, it feels like she's moving in the opposite direction, and she's becoming some weird plastic version of herself. We live a decent driving distance apart and I don't have car, so I've barely seen her and she doesn't like to talk on the phone. I don't know how to address how we're moving in different directions. How do you ask someone, "What is wrong with you?" when technically there's nothing wrong? It's like there's some invisible box in the way that I can feel but I can't see to describe it.
Oof, sending a shoulder squeeze to you - I am in a similar situation, pandemic/my life transitions/then hers pushed things to a brink although I took action a few times. I then got pretty cowardly and kept up appearances (she seemed to be struggling a lot, pandemic, me biding my time until I moved out of the city she lives in) and... now I basically said, I need space for this friendship to transition. I wish I'd been able to just say what I needed, and been able to articulate if I could not give her what she needed (because I just kept trying to give her everything). I think part of it is there's nothing wrong with a transition! But one person not acknowledging it means I think it's just time to move forward with you saying: this version of this friendship isn't a friendship anymore. Two cents. It sucks. But holy shit, after I said something, and after I got time away, I have felt incredibly relieved.
I have an old family friend (ah nothing like a family friend to complicate things) who really stirs a lot of shit in me that has NOTHING to do with her. We both come from conservative, immigrant families and I always thought we would be rebels together. Well, we ended up going down different paths, and let's just say she ended up sticking to our roots more than I did. She of course hasn't done anything wrong but I still find myself resenting her, which is totally unfair and immature I know! We also don't have that much in common and there's really not much to talk about, but she seems to be invested in the friendships more than I am, which makes me feel like a total dick. I am locked in this thinking of I need good reason behind my decisions and desires, and can't really come up with a reason not to be her friend besides the fact I'm insecure. Any thoughts?
Okay, so this is like a variation of the "people are all different and nothing is personal and we should all ask for what we want" thread above. One part of having preferences INCLUDES preferring NOT to remain close with some people. I mean, even if the source of your preference is insecurity, does it matter if you absolutely don't enjoy being in this person's company or hearing her speak? But I wouldn't really boil it down to insecurities in this case, honestly. The issue is that your VALUES are very, very different from hers. There are times when that's an issue and there are times when it doesn't matter that much. When you're in a state of flux and you're trying to stick to your convictions about the life you're choosing, it is particularly hard to befriend people who are living in very different ways. This is ANOTHER reason why it's hard not to face a friendship reckoning in your 30s: because people are just starting to embrace their own paths, and it's hard to be exposed to incredibly different paths when you're still feeling shaky about your own.
Because she's an OLD friend and has ties to your family, I'd say don't cut her off but limit your contact. Decide you'll talk to her once a month, say, and stick to that. Eventually she'll get the idea. And if you spend a year like that and every second you speak to her is pure torture? You reevaluate. But I think what you're describing might be a friendship that matures and evolves over the years, or at least becomes more interesting as your choices and your path both feel more solid and reliable to you.
I'm in a weird place where each time a friend cancels plans with me, it seems to sink me into a deeper and deeper hole. I used to be really genuinely nonchalant about it, but now it feels like 9/10 plans get cancelled, or postponed indefinitely, and it's turning into a feedback loop where I'm increasingly desperate for friends to come through for me, but my desperation repels people (understandably.) I know "learn to say no" and "don't feel bad about cancelling if you need to stay in and have some time alone" have become very popular instagram pseudo-psycho-education tropes, but shouldn't there be a balance of most of the time really putting in effort to show up for the people in your life, especially when you say you will? This experience the last few years has made me realize that you just never know where someone's at, emotionally, and bailing should be a rare exception instead of a go-to if you want to be a a good friend for someone to have. Someone you least expect might really need a basic level of reciprocity from you that you assume they're getting elsewhere. Now I try to respond much more often, in a more timely way, to reach out and see how someone's doing or see if they'd like to get together, and pretty much to never bail on plans. This is a change for me after being on the other side, and I wish more people would make these efforts.
I just had a good friend—one that I spoke to throughout the day every day (long distance)—drop me without very much explanation. She said "this friendship just doesn't feel right to me." I'm an advocate that no one is obligated to provide an explanation, that they are nice-to-have, freely-given options that are useful for clarity. But not giving one here just feels so cowardly. The truth is that I was always on eggshells in this friendship, because I could tell that something I would say would trip some kind of invisible wire, and she would emotionally withdraw, and then over time with me be extra careful she'd slowly come closer again. I'd never quite understand what the misstep was or why it threatened our connection, and so I started living in fear that I'd misstep again. When I'm comfortable with someone, I'm a direct, boisterous, energetic, and at times a little brusk and blunt person. I'm not sheepish or un-opinionated. But I keep finding myself in friendships with people simply too sensitive for this. I feel like a bull in emotional china shops with friendships, and like conversations have to run on these scripts of tip-toeing and checking in. Trying to look for people with a little more "grit" as my therapist puts it.
Oh and for the record, this search for people with more grit is coming on the tail-end of two years working through my communication style in therapy and practicing a lot of tweaks and changes that clearly needed to happen on my end.
Friendship is HARD! God! It's hard!
At some point during this whole pandemic shitshow, I realized I don't actually trust any of my friends with my whole self. They're not bad people and I don't blame them for my inability to show up, but it still hurts. Socializing feels painful because I'm not sure how to stop mirroring people's mannerisms and opinions, and it's exhausting. I know that's not healthy for me or my friends, but I'm not sure how to break the pattern.
My girlfriend and I are going through our first serious rough patch (long story short, I feel like I work harder than she does on both housework and feelings-management and I'm starting to resent that, and I've been acting like an asshole because of it). I'm reaching a breaking point and I need support, but I don't know what kind of support I need. I'm working on identifying my needs and wants in therapy, but it's slow going. I guess I just need permission to feel my "unacceptable" feelings in someone else's presence, but there's no one in my life besides my therapist who I trust enough.
Long story short, I'm lonely and angry and it's my own fault.
what do you think about this concept of an 'asshole filter'?
https://siderea.livejournal.com/1230660.html
I found this happening to me in the past when I tried setting boundaries but wasn't good about enforcing them yet... I ended up wondering if there was any point to boundaries, since many people reacted so badly to it.
I started intentionally NOT setting boundaries, because then at least I wouldn't KNOW that the people around me didn't care about them. It seemed better at the time to assume they just didn't know, instead of feeling WORSE knowing they knew and just didn't care...
I'm now in a healthier place and trying again, but this is still a big fear for me!
When you consistently assert your boundaries, the benefits spread beyond the immediate approval or disapproval you encounter. Asserting your own desires and limits in the world is a way of reminding yourself that what you want matters and how you feel matters. For someone who grew up with porous boundaries (because parents/family insisted on transgressing those boundaries and children's preferences were treated as laughable to irrelevant), simply believe that your particular needs deserve respect and your enjoyment matters can feel revolutionary. Likewise, as long as other people's reactions and feelings re: your boundaries seem more important than your own feelings, that's an indication that at some core level, pleasing yourself feels exotic and selfish to you.
That said, setting boundaries isn't really a test, it's a way of life. You offer me something I don't want, I say no thank you. When everyone around you starts falling apart over simple assertions of what you want and need, that's a good indication that you're most comfortable around dismissive, avoidant people. You may also be allergic to secure, open people. I don't think an asshole filter is as useful a paradigm as the idea that you simply seek out people who aren't that open or direct and avoid people who are. The sea change that occurs when you start to notice people with healthy boundaries and open hearts is pretty huge. And as disappointing as it is that people you know won't all turn on a dime if they're used to pushing or transgressing your boundaries, part of caring for your own needs includes being good to yourself and not telling sad reflexive stories about how people are terrible and they never change. Living with uncertainty is also easier when you know that *you* aren't going to sacrifice what you need over and over for the sake of other people's opinions and preferences.
Does all this mean that we have to deal with our sad events alone, like deaths and divorces and health issues and other losses, so that we’re not going “on and on” to our friends, requiring them to have good boundaries and get off the phone quickly? I get you can’t expect endless support, and obviously no bad behavior, but is there no space any more for friendships being at least partial resources / containers for this kind of thing? Can we not expect this from friendships any more?
I’m the one typically listening, without good boundaries and I’ve paid for it...but I also truly like listening to people and supporting them. I want that in return. Is that something I shouldn’t expect?
Oh no! We can absolutely ask for help when we need it. A good friend with good boundaries can provide support and empathy without going down the hole with you. And they can gently call you on your own BS or when you're trying to hand over your bag of emotional poo so You don't have to deal with it. They will also be able to say, This is more than I can help you with. Please see a professional counselor or therapist - without this being an abandonment.
Regarding friends and family, I constantly feel like I have to try so so hard to be GOOD. I just feel like I'm always trying to make up for something.
I think it's hard to help in any real way when you're always trying to be good. I always felt like I made people angry very easily so I had to try much harder than regular people to ACT NORMAL and FRIENDLY and HELPFUL. When you're living inside that space of oppressive duty, though, you don't act normal. You seem like an unhappy robot. People actually get MORE irritated with you. Accepting that you're just a flawed human being with some strong opinions and sharp edges who takes up a lot of space is the first step. Accepting that other people aren't always going to think you're doing it right helps. And finally? You stop trying so hard.
Nine times out of ten, you stop trying so hard and people around you immediately relax. They like you better this way. It's truly astounding. But first, you have to make peace with your new role as a regular person who doesn't always have to be friendly and cheerful and good. When you enter into situations with the attitude, "I am a complex human. This is just how I am," people tend to respect that and make space for it. But you have to own it before anyone else will.
I just said goodbye to my best friend of many years a few months ago. She violated my boundaries constantly-- even when I reinforced them in the moment. She is a great human being but I feel much more peaceful and a lot less anxious now. She allowed someone to verbally mistreat me in her home in August, and when I brought it up to her immediately after it happened and told her that it hurt my feelings, she brushed it off and acted like nothing happened. This continued into the next day: it seemed that she would not set a boundary with this friend she brought into her home so I let them know I did not appreciate the way they spoke to me. My friend then gaslit me and tried to convince me that nothing happened and I was crazy / overreacting. She even told me that she was hurt that I would come to her this way, accusing her of allowing someone to mistreat me. She said her friend, let's call them Joe, didn't say anything aggressive or rude to me because she asked Joe and he said he would never. This broke the camel's back. This was not the first time she gaslit me or told me 'you look crazy, how would you feel if someone came to you expressing their feelings like you just did? you would think they were nuts...'. She brushed off my anxiety and its effects on my mood / capabilities-- until she became anxious at the start of the pandemic and apologized for not being supportive enough when I started to spiral. She told me she did not want to talk with me about a MAJOR heartbreak / abusive relationship I went through because I looked crazy and we weren't going to agree on whatever she thought it was important for us to agree on. I was just looking for some consolation from my friend after being abused (and not knowing at the time that it was in fact abuse and not just a jerk hurting my feels). Again, she apologized and told me she can now empathize with what I went through because she was going through a similar situation with someone in the present (which is not true and pales in comparison). I think I've gotten pretty good at asking for what I need and setting boundaries with folks-- and even allowing flexibility with boundaries over time. People change, feelings change, etc. I'm also a fresh 30 years old and I know friendships are bound to shift and change, or even disintegrate. I just can't handle someone I care about constantly disregarding my needs in the name of friendship. I never thought about having to find a new playground with new people and muster up the moxi to make new pals. Sigh. During a hellish nightmare at that.
I'm sorry, that sounds exhausting. It sounds like it's time to give this friendship some space. You might come back together as friends in the future -- I mean, it does sound like your friend needs a lot of time to get up to speed with what's happening around her, emotionally. It also sounds like she's a little paranoid about looking crazy, seeming crazy, acting crazy, and tends to lump any conflict into the same "crazy" category due to her own insecurities about her buried issues. I mean, look, there are people who bury their baggage for decades. When you're open about what you need, their response is to shame you into the ground for it. Sometimes you have to play along in order to keep the peace -- I'm thinking of family, here, mostly, or friends who are like family. You take into account that someone is pretty shutdown or avoidant and you make an adjustment and expect less. But when close friends don't understand what you're saying (even when you're calm and not attacking) and don't have your back at all with other people? That's a clear sign that it's time to back up. Use that time to reflect on the kinds of friends you want in your life, and dare to believe that you'll find them.
That includes addressing your insecurities, of course, around how it feels to spend time with people who are functioning at a higher level than you are. I always throw this in, but it's so important to aim for great friendships and also NOTICE that if you're used to troublemakers and complainers, spending time with happy, high-functioning people can be downright bewildering. You'll learn a lot from it, though -- including the lesson that a lot of really healthy happy people have great boundaries, tolerate and navigate conflict smoothly, and don't let their insecurities lead them to distance themselves from a good friend in need.
Thank you!<3 This makes me feel better. xoxo!
The oddest thing has happened to my friendships over the course of the pandemic. I'm talking about the girlfriends that I would get together with regularly for a walk or a glass of wine or maybe lunch or dinner - the 8 or 10 women who I count on as my closest friends. All of these women live nearby and all know each other, if not as closely as I know them individually. In the first couple of months of COVID, there were regular emails and texts - some more serious, some humorous posts from wherever that we forwarded to each other. Around May or June, those kinds of connections started to dwindle. I still cared about my friends but there seemed to be a mutual stepping back. That has not changed. There have never been zoom or FT meetings and now it feels as if they are history. I actually do think that , when things are safer again, some of those friendships might be revived but IDK. I sort of miss them but I sort of don't.
What's equally interesting is how my on line friendships have grown. I have grown closer to a wide variety of people that I know only from Twitter. Most of these people I know b/c of shared interests_ books, poetry, art, hope, and some political connections. Somehow I have more contact and , generally quite real contact, with these distant connections than with the people I know IRL. I'm happy with that too.
I wonder if other people have experienced this reversal.
Honestly my reversal has been on folks I thought I was tight with online (hobby communities on instagram/twitter) where I just... burnt out. And it just started feeling... gross? Para mi, I think I need a balance of people time + online time to like create the horizon of connection, and when it gets out of whack, I see things differently. On the other hand, I've spent most of the last 6 months very, very alone by choice, going camping solo, on solo and distanced bike and road trips, etc. So communicating via letter, calls, emails, texts were the things that felt "real". Does that make sense?
I also honestly think people are in subconscious existential despair and trying to cope takes everything you have sometimes, and shit falls apart. That's sort of where I'm at: I love my friends and I'm in it to win it, but nothing's gonna feel right or good right now. In the Northern Hemisphere it's summer, and being outside, which involves being alone, is the thing keeping me going. Two cents. I'm curious to see if the "online things" I was VERY into at the beginning of March will resurge this winter. Right now it sort of sounds like something I do not want to do? Yeah.
Thanks for the response. I agree about the existential despair and that most of us are not even fully aware of that despair. I think it takes far more to simply keep our heads above water than we even know. Add in the civil unrest and political tumult in the US and there is even more despair. I am on the west coast which has been pummeled with unprecedented fires and smoke and I am fried. Pretty much everyone I know around here is.
I wish I could have been very, very, very alone but I am in a partnership that doesn't' easily allow for that. However, my partner is not much of an outdoors person but I am an outdoors person. My escape has been daily long bicycle rides (at dawn - the best time, IMO). I live in an area that has many hiking trails and beach trails. At the beginning of the pandemic all those trails were closed and I nearly completely lost it. They tell me there is this scary virus and everyone is going to die and then they close ALL the F-ing recreational areas. It was pretty bad but I found ways around it.
I think I like the online stuff b/c I don't have to put up an facade. I can be me. I will likely never meet these people and they don't know anything about me but what I choose to put up. It's nice to sort of start over?
I experienced this IRL 10 years ago - preferring the closeness of people who share my values and not just my space. fwiw.
Thanks for that comment. That is a valuable perspective.
hey there. this all sounds super hard, and I feel you. I know it may be trite, but Polly says this in the article that our friendships bend and twist and stretch in our transition periods in life. It sounds like you, certainly, are doing that in an intense way that is very different from hers! It makes so much sense this is hard on you, and perhaps I'm responding because I'm in a scenario where I'm on the other side - I have explicitly asked for space from a best friend (both queer) of 15 years. So I would say that, based on what you've said, she probably does know this is painful. I am so aware I have hurt my dear, dear friend and yet, I have to do this because shit has been too painful in our friendship, and our own VERY close/Ferrante type stuff never changed! In fifteen years!
So I guess I would say in the kindest way that you have made significant changes, and your transition probably does highlight where she is not changing in that way, and I think remembering that you need to focus on the movement forward, not the loss of backward, is good. It sounds like you love each other dearly, so why not assume you'll have five years of a changed closeness somewhere down the line? My friends who I have loved, bled, grieved with - we have all had time apart, fights, not liking each other. It's life, you know? And as someone watching a few close friends knot up their romantic relationships over COVID (marriage, kids, etc., while I remain odd duck etc), I'm ashamed to say it does hurt, and you do feel alone, and you're allowed to take that space as your lives inevitably cleave. I hope this is not too harsh, because I think it sounds like this may not be a forever loss. Hope, you know?
i have read this over so many times. thank you for writing this. i'm imagining that this is what my friend might say to me were she able. it is so hard, as you say so kindly. i think it's especially hard for me, as a woman who is deeply conditioned to feel responsible for how others feel -- regardless of whether or not it could be attributed to me -- to know how to say, I caused this, I didn't cause this. how to see separation as a function of fundamental difference and not as blame. i think it really may come down to how different we are as people and how different our styles of communication and our inner beliefs about ourselves and about others are. and i am having a hard time with this because i hate ambivalence, i like strong and stark and simple story lines both in fiction and in my own life. but as we get older and life gets increasingly unwieldy i can see the cracks in the story i am trying to tell myself. i think this is actually key to why we are growing apart -- i like triumphal narratives, it's part of why i fall in love so deeply, but she doesn't feel the same way about her attachments, and this makes her feel lost. but the truth is that there is no triumphal narrative even for me, or that what i try to spin as triumphal is just an unending, repetitive set of attempts to strain towards the light.
i am sorry that your friend made you feel the way she did, and that you don't always feel like an odd duck, or hurt, or alone. i'm proud of you for taking the space that you need. and thank you for your very kind and wise comments that this is just a part of life. i hope that we both find healing and those who can hold us in the ways that we need them to <3
Just a thought: your friend could be out of spoons/ bandwidth. Of course your original post is self-focused, but may be worth rewriting from scratch (eg, in a journal) as if, as someone who loves her, you're worried about her rather than grieving your (possibly temporary) loss. The empathy might help towards accepting change, yourself, and that ultimately we only control our end of any relationship, our response. Either way, sorry it sucks. I wish it didn't.