Such good and powerful advice! Gathering the courage to say the thing without any expectation of what the response will be has been the biggest thing I have done to learn to trust myself. I am saying the thing out loud, so that I can hold on to myself, if it improves a relationship then that is a bonus, but at the very least I have been a good friend to myself.
I still have a big issue in deciding whether TO GHOSE OR NOT TO GHOST - obviously depending on what they did. I probably would have ghosted your friend who talked mad shit about you behind your back.
A part of me still resonates with this post. I believe conflict is a time to learn and grow and become more attuned to ourselves and each other.
But I used to go to people, ask for clarification, so I understand what they meant (they always mean the mean shit they do), and ask them to stop. They either doubled down or decided to drop me. There was no mutual relationship preservation. I have never had someone who turned their shit around.
It took me a while to learn about myself in navigating contemptuous, dogshit-ass behavior in relationships, and unfortunately, it has been well worth throwing the baby out with the water.
Nowadays, if you show that you don't like me or you have little to no respect for me, then it is time for me to accept it for what it is and leave you the fuck alone.
I would be disrespecting myself by TRYING to continue being "friends" with someone who treats me and speaks of me in ways I wouldn't think of doing to them.
my comment somewhere on the feed was inspired by this by you - perhaps we need more practice or something, but I've concluded that logical empathetic advice that sounds like it should work somehow doesn't...
Great read! I fully endorse this! It took me 40 years to finally do this. It's hard because hiding behind my shame and fear of confrontation did serve me for decades by avoiding short term pain and being able to tell myself the story as the sole narrator that I 'was in the right'. Then I got sick of feeling the way I did about people. I realized I had never learned healthy expression or conflict resolution as a child and needed to start now or never. I started to express my needs, gingerly at first, then I felt more comfortable to respectfully confront people directly and simply while being open to their take and not trying to control the outcome. It is really hard at first because you separate the wheat from the chaff pretty quickly in people and can feel painful yet also liberating. The hardest pill to swallow for me was realizing how many relationships in my life were predicated on how I made the other person feel and that I was a prop for their ego because I went along, didn't rock the boat, and enabled their behavior. More than a few friends, when I started to gently show up as a person with different opinions or needs, either decided they weren't getting what they needed from me or became irrationally angry at rational behavior because they had never seen me as a full person such as themselves. It's sometimes been easier to make new friends leading with this new way of being in the world than keeping the older, as painful as it is. The friends that have stayed or accepted my change have only grown stronger in their friendship.
LW, your coworker/friend has likely done you dirty, but there is a non zero chance your boss misinterpreted or embellished what they said. Hearsay after all. Give her a chance to explain or apologize. I've had a lot of miscommunications and conflicts cleared just by asking.
As someone who hates confrontations and is really trying to get better at them, this was a great read! Thank you. I recently got ghosted mid-conversation and while that sucked, it also gave me clarity on where that relationship was heading.
This was super helpful for me. These are exactly the kind of skills that I'm working on right now. I have acted similarly to the person who asked for advice and I am trying to be the person described by Heather. This all resonated with me and really helps me frame my thoughts.
Are there any books that helped others make this change? Maybe something with a similar theme to this post but more of a deep dive? "Children of Emotionally Immature parents" was the only thing I have read that comes close.
You got me hooked with your well-detailed, perfectly delivered, honest, and raw explanation. I wanted to catch a nap but I couldn't because I had to read this to the end. Thank you for writing so well.
great advice - but theoretical, seems to me (bit long-winded too) - have tried similar explaining how I felt and result was other person confirmed in thinking I'm in the wrong, no mutual, no acknowledgment or understanding - now I just ghost, or smile&nod, and my realization is that nobody-gives-a-shit.
yeah, bitter, but people are as they are, do what they do, they have no interest in feedback or asking for clarification...got past big things with a couple of good friends, one of whom tolerated my bad behaviour on several occasions and one whose bad behaviour on several occasions I just checked off to temperament&circumstances...
I'm 89 now, so I'm not even interested in trying any more...I tolerate up to a point, then the wall goes up
It's been really rewarding almost counter culture (haha!) to say how I feel. What you're describing has always been what I felt is best way forward but I have felt crazy for feeling this way.
Friends, partners and everyone so sucked in the ghost culture has been creating this bubble of avoidance and telling me o go against my instincts. It makes me happy and confident to see one person on internet I haven't met saying: FUCK IT, SPEAK YOUR HEART!!
I became acquainted with the loss of friends during cancer treatment and divorce. I’m not sure why that happens, but I know it’s a common experience. I used to twist myself emotionally and mentally to keep my friends no matter what. I tested the waters to address issues in the past and share how I felt, but it always seemed to backfire. I would walk it back just to keep the friend or keep my friend group together.
Something happened with a 20 yr friendship. She told me not to talk about my ex husband because she wanted to be friends with him. He cheated on me, lied for years, and was an alcoholic. Her and I had been close friends and I never perceived my ex and her as being good friends. We didn’t even live in the same state. Something finally broke loose in me and I didn’t twist myself in a million ways to keep the friendship. I never called her again. And since then I have walked away from other friendships too. People I tried to express my boundaries to who treated me like I was ridiculous.
I love what you said. And I want to speak more plainly. Unfortunately, the reaction and result can be complicated. I don’t want to be alone and I don’t want the company of shitty friends.
Such good and powerful advice! Gathering the courage to say the thing without any expectation of what the response will be has been the biggest thing I have done to learn to trust myself. I am saying the thing out loud, so that I can hold on to myself, if it improves a relationship then that is a bonus, but at the very least I have been a good friend to myself.
I still have a big issue in deciding whether TO GHOSE OR NOT TO GHOST - obviously depending on what they did. I probably would have ghosted your friend who talked mad shit about you behind your back.
A part of me still resonates with this post. I believe conflict is a time to learn and grow and become more attuned to ourselves and each other.
But I used to go to people, ask for clarification, so I understand what they meant (they always mean the mean shit they do), and ask them to stop. They either doubled down or decided to drop me. There was no mutual relationship preservation. I have never had someone who turned their shit around.
It took me a while to learn about myself in navigating contemptuous, dogshit-ass behavior in relationships, and unfortunately, it has been well worth throwing the baby out with the water.
Nowadays, if you show that you don't like me or you have little to no respect for me, then it is time for me to accept it for what it is and leave you the fuck alone.
I would be disrespecting myself by TRYING to continue being "friends" with someone who treats me and speaks of me in ways I wouldn't think of doing to them.
my comment somewhere on the feed was inspired by this by you - perhaps we need more practice or something, but I've concluded that logical empathetic advice that sounds like it should work somehow doesn't...
This was good. I love the PLAIN SPEAK.
This is great advice. So good
Great read! I fully endorse this! It took me 40 years to finally do this. It's hard because hiding behind my shame and fear of confrontation did serve me for decades by avoiding short term pain and being able to tell myself the story as the sole narrator that I 'was in the right'. Then I got sick of feeling the way I did about people. I realized I had never learned healthy expression or conflict resolution as a child and needed to start now or never. I started to express my needs, gingerly at first, then I felt more comfortable to respectfully confront people directly and simply while being open to their take and not trying to control the outcome. It is really hard at first because you separate the wheat from the chaff pretty quickly in people and can feel painful yet also liberating. The hardest pill to swallow for me was realizing how many relationships in my life were predicated on how I made the other person feel and that I was a prop for their ego because I went along, didn't rock the boat, and enabled their behavior. More than a few friends, when I started to gently show up as a person with different opinions or needs, either decided they weren't getting what they needed from me or became irrationally angry at rational behavior because they had never seen me as a full person such as themselves. It's sometimes been easier to make new friends leading with this new way of being in the world than keeping the older, as painful as it is. The friends that have stayed or accepted my change have only grown stronger in their friendship.
LW, your coworker/friend has likely done you dirty, but there is a non zero chance your boss misinterpreted or embellished what they said. Hearsay after all. Give her a chance to explain or apologize. I've had a lot of miscommunications and conflicts cleared just by asking.
As someone who hates confrontations and is really trying to get better at them, this was a great read! Thank you. I recently got ghosted mid-conversation and while that sucked, it also gave me clarity on where that relationship was heading.
What we run from organizes our whole life.
-Double ID
This was super helpful for me. These are exactly the kind of skills that I'm working on right now. I have acted similarly to the person who asked for advice and I am trying to be the person described by Heather. This all resonated with me and really helps me frame my thoughts.
Are there any books that helped others make this change? Maybe something with a similar theme to this post but more of a deep dive? "Children of Emotionally Immature parents" was the only thing I have read that comes close.
Oh my goodness. I needed to hear this. Thank you.
You got me hooked with your well-detailed, perfectly delivered, honest, and raw explanation. I wanted to catch a nap but I couldn't because I had to read this to the end. Thank you for writing so well.
great advice - but theoretical, seems to me (bit long-winded too) - have tried similar explaining how I felt and result was other person confirmed in thinking I'm in the wrong, no mutual, no acknowledgment or understanding - now I just ghost, or smile&nod, and my realization is that nobody-gives-a-shit.
yeah, bitter, but people are as they are, do what they do, they have no interest in feedback or asking for clarification...got past big things with a couple of good friends, one of whom tolerated my bad behaviour on several occasions and one whose bad behaviour on several occasions I just checked off to temperament&circumstances...
I'm 89 now, so I'm not even interested in trying any more...I tolerate up to a point, then the wall goes up
These pieces never miss. I am in awe of the Heather's brain.
It's been really rewarding almost counter culture (haha!) to say how I feel. What you're describing has always been what I felt is best way forward but I have felt crazy for feeling this way.
Friends, partners and everyone so sucked in the ghost culture has been creating this bubble of avoidance and telling me o go against my instincts. It makes me happy and confident to see one person on internet I haven't met saying: FUCK IT, SPEAK YOUR HEART!!
truly life changing
I became acquainted with the loss of friends during cancer treatment and divorce. I’m not sure why that happens, but I know it’s a common experience. I used to twist myself emotionally and mentally to keep my friends no matter what. I tested the waters to address issues in the past and share how I felt, but it always seemed to backfire. I would walk it back just to keep the friend or keep my friend group together.
Something happened with a 20 yr friendship. She told me not to talk about my ex husband because she wanted to be friends with him. He cheated on me, lied for years, and was an alcoholic. Her and I had been close friends and I never perceived my ex and her as being good friends. We didn’t even live in the same state. Something finally broke loose in me and I didn’t twist myself in a million ways to keep the friendship. I never called her again. And since then I have walked away from other friendships too. People I tried to express my boundaries to who treated me like I was ridiculous.
I love what you said. And I want to speak more plainly. Unfortunately, the reaction and result can be complicated. I don’t want to be alone and I don’t want the company of shitty friends.
I am such a Polly fan! Fuck yea to saying how you feel.
This is so so so so so good. Gold! Thank you Polly!!!!