As always here with the gold: “ listen to how confused people can get when they’re all wrapped up in other people’s problems, to the point where other people’s drama becomes a form of escape from their own lives.”
Or as my good friend Nathan said to me you’re an excellent fire fighter doesn’t mean you need to date a human flame thrower.
Gemma! Love and agree with your friend’s analogy—being good at handling chaos doesn’t mean we should go looking for more of it. It's like trading peace for perpetual firefighting.
I have often confused the ability to say my piece with my need to be heard. LW say it out loud and if you know there is a chance you will not be heard, it will make it easier to stay calm and not inject the hurt into what you have to say. But also, find a friend who you can tell all the mean things that are in your head right now and who will laugh and help you feel normal.
I have to say I think the LW comes across as extremely clear-sighted and kind in this letter. I speak as one whose family had a similar level of boundaryless delulu fantasy (although directed at different goals) - it takes A WHILE to see it all clearly, owing to the takeover of your entire brain space in childhood.
Polly's observations are wise, as ever, regarding the dynamics underlying this crazy. The advice to contact a financial adviser is really important and takes it out of the family dynamic into (let's hope) a neutral source of some common sense.
Agree with Polly’s advice to speak up and then step away from this craziness. I would just be 100% crystal clear with the family - if this investment goes bad - that you are not able to house or financially support your parents or sister. Ask them if they have a back up plan if they lose their house. And then step back and let them deal with the consequences. Unfortunately sometimes , people are legally entitled to make horrible financial decisions.
The come to Jesus conversation is the first pain point. The consequences would be the second.
When this happened in my ex-husband's family, the phone rang. I was told, we should help because it doesn't matter how she got there, just that she *was* there. I (the bad guy) said no. No one ended up homeless, so I gather they worked it out. But that second conversation can make one feel heartless.
The one exceedingly good point that wouldn't occur to me is how terrifying it must be to have your parents ramp up the pressure 1000% if you even so much as look at a new hobby. Candle Making? WE'LL SELL OUR HOUSE TO SUPPORT YOUR ETSy!!! Join a new dance class? WE'LL PAY FOR YOU TO GO ON AMERICAS GOT TALENT!!! Get barely improved grades? U Need PRIVATE SCHOOL SO YOuLL BE PresidENT Of AMERICa!!!
I wonder with this level of hysterical nonsense if your sister and you were ever allowed to have a normal interest without interference. All or nothing! The best or the worst!! By all means point out that they're actually putting sooo much pressure on their loving golden child who would surely never want them to put their parents at risk but you know fine well this level of self-destruction requires you to save yourself and deal with the very real possibility of having no inheritance. Sorry.
This reminds me of what bell hooks said in Sisters of the Yam: Black woman and self-recovery, discussing addiction in Black communities and how I was really struck by her discussion of codependency and how Black women, whether mothers, lovers, or friends enable their addicted partners. At first, I thought, but bell hooks, isn't it normal for parents to not want to abandon their kids no matter how bad their lives get? because I'm someone who firmly believes in resources first, then helping them out of the pit because I despise capitalist society manufacturing scarcity, leaving people to drown and somehow climb out while theyre being stabbed by knives, and then saying, they should pull themselves out by their bootstraps. But as I read bell hooks described scenario of a Black mother saying I don't give my son moeny for drugs, but she still buys food and pays rent for him, covering the gaps his addiction creates, I realized my perspective was warped, because I literally have a grandma who's like that, and its subconsciously normalized inside of me. So I love how Polly brought up compassion towards the sister, and how she's being kept dependent. The balance between holding someone accountable and having compassion for their circumstances is something no one ever masters, but LW writer, please speak up.
I think the most painful thing here for you to accept or deal with, is you can't control either of your parents' or sister's decision. You'll vastly increase your chances by not blowing up, by remaining calm and generally following Polly's advice, but if you spend too much time trying to talk to them, you could very well become wrapped in then drama. It's easy to go into the opposite direction. Remember Polly sauing to Step back and let them learn the hard way
Oo, yikes. As someone who has started multiple small businesses, there is absolutely no need to invest huge amounts starting out. Especially on something like a candle business. She should absolutely be able to self-fund that, and work to grow it within her means.
If at some point she wants to expand it to nation-wide levels of production, then sure, look into getting some funding. But that comes AFTER you’ve built a solid foundation of a successful business model. After you have proof-of-concept.
So sorry you’re having to watch your parents get sucked into her delusions. I sure hope you’re able to sober things up a bit. I understand not wanting to be the bad guy, but sometimes it’s the most loving thing..
First, I bought this house. My first house in LA, the owner was selling because she'd taken out ALL of the equity for one of her children's businesses...that failed. At the last minute as she had to move out into an apartment outside of Vegas, she refused. I felt for her as her other children were not willing to take her in. She'd alienated with them and they weren't going to save her. She did move, but she was very bitter that her retirement hadn't gone as she'd planned.
Second, LW, *I* would let it go. There's probably no inheritance coming, so you should do everything to shore up your own future.
Lastly, I know someone like this. He's 55 and his mom is still on FB talking about how he's going to be a millionaire soon. (This is like the 10th business last time I peeked). I feel for him in the sense that he has to call mom whenever he wants to buy groceries or pay the mortgage or buy a car...or...or. He lives his life in a panic of lack of self worth, smoking, and Xanax. It's not a great existence. I have no idea what the siblings think as most aren't speaking to him or his parents.
You gotta be okay with being the villain when you clearly see total nonsense and point it out to The Delulu that surrounds you. There is inner peace in seeing reality and seeing the fantasy hills that people climb, yell mad at you from, and then die on.
I agree Al Anon/CoDA is a great first step to ending YOUR codependency/YOUR dysfunctional role in the family. I have been and I still appreciate the experience. It has helped me see the different stages of recovery from codependency of other attendees; some with a long road ahead and some who have made progress. Go for at least 6 meetings before deciding to truly commit to going regularly or stop going and try something else more attuned to your personal recovery.
I am ASTONISHED that these parents are thinking of doing anything so terribly risky as this in the Year of Our Nonbinary Deity 2024 when people over 65 are the fastest growing homeless population in the US. They seem to be desperate to help, but sinking their own ship will not help their drowning daughter! Your advice is spot on here. Even if the parents really do abandon their own ship to join their daughter by drowning together, at least this other daughter will know she attempted to stop it from happening.
She is not a victim, she is a volunteer - with no idea of what running a business might be like, she found willing backers to finance an overly saturated market without having a competitive edge. Does YANKEE CANDLE ring a bell?
The REAL victims are your parents, who were blindly seduced into giving a family member money without benefit of collateral or determining the ability to pay back the money lent. And guess who will feel responsible for looking after them in their dotage when sis is broke?
Oh my gawd....should Caroline York have her own advice column or what???
I just got on here to say thanks for the giggles but read the first two comments... 😅😅😅😅.... I didn't realise the comments section was here for us punters to add our 2 cents worth after reading (apparently for some) the very good advice that has already been given!
Okay, hhmmm...
So my advice is: run to your parents house and excitedly announce you had a dream that Reality and Common Sense infused candles was what would shoot your sisters business into the stratosphere but that you, as silent partner and 'ideas/dreams person' would require half of the 'investment' in cash, take it, since they seem to be throwing it away, and get the hell outta Dodge screaming BUSINESS PLAN as you go.
I think that OCH should form an S corporation, open a corporate investment account, put a little money in it, call herself a fund manager, and ask her parents for some more seed money.
-
This is not a beast that can be slain by a frontal assault.
As always here with the gold: “ listen to how confused people can get when they’re all wrapped up in other people’s problems, to the point where other people’s drama becomes a form of escape from their own lives.”
Or as my good friend Nathan said to me you’re an excellent fire fighter doesn’t mean you need to date a human flame thrower.
Gemma! Love and agree with your friend’s analogy—being good at handling chaos doesn’t mean we should go looking for more of it. It's like trading peace for perpetual firefighting.
I’m not sure I realised for a long time how much I gravitated to chaos. Now I have I’m trying to make better choices. Trying to choose peace!
You got this 🧡
🕊️ 🤍
I have often confused the ability to say my piece with my need to be heard. LW say it out loud and if you know there is a chance you will not be heard, it will make it easier to stay calm and not inject the hurt into what you have to say. But also, find a friend who you can tell all the mean things that are in your head right now and who will laugh and help you feel normal.
I have to say I think the LW comes across as extremely clear-sighted and kind in this letter. I speak as one whose family had a similar level of boundaryless delulu fantasy (although directed at different goals) - it takes A WHILE to see it all clearly, owing to the takeover of your entire brain space in childhood.
Polly's observations are wise, as ever, regarding the dynamics underlying this crazy. The advice to contact a financial adviser is really important and takes it out of the family dynamic into (let's hope) a neutral source of some common sense.
Good luck, LW ❤️
Agree with Polly’s advice to speak up and then step away from this craziness. I would just be 100% crystal clear with the family - if this investment goes bad - that you are not able to house or financially support your parents or sister. Ask them if they have a back up plan if they lose their house. And then step back and let them deal with the consequences. Unfortunately sometimes , people are legally entitled to make horrible financial decisions.
The come to Jesus conversation is the first pain point. The consequences would be the second.
When this happened in my ex-husband's family, the phone rang. I was told, we should help because it doesn't matter how she got there, just that she *was* there. I (the bad guy) said no. No one ended up homeless, so I gather they worked it out. But that second conversation can make one feel heartless.
Totally agree. Your money will eventually come into play. Just a matter of time.
The one exceedingly good point that wouldn't occur to me is how terrifying it must be to have your parents ramp up the pressure 1000% if you even so much as look at a new hobby. Candle Making? WE'LL SELL OUR HOUSE TO SUPPORT YOUR ETSy!!! Join a new dance class? WE'LL PAY FOR YOU TO GO ON AMERICAS GOT TALENT!!! Get barely improved grades? U Need PRIVATE SCHOOL SO YOuLL BE PresidENT Of AMERICa!!!
I wonder with this level of hysterical nonsense if your sister and you were ever allowed to have a normal interest without interference. All or nothing! The best or the worst!! By all means point out that they're actually putting sooo much pressure on their loving golden child who would surely never want them to put their parents at risk but you know fine well this level of self-destruction requires you to save yourself and deal with the very real possibility of having no inheritance. Sorry.
This reminds me of what bell hooks said in Sisters of the Yam: Black woman and self-recovery, discussing addiction in Black communities and how I was really struck by her discussion of codependency and how Black women, whether mothers, lovers, or friends enable their addicted partners. At first, I thought, but bell hooks, isn't it normal for parents to not want to abandon their kids no matter how bad their lives get? because I'm someone who firmly believes in resources first, then helping them out of the pit because I despise capitalist society manufacturing scarcity, leaving people to drown and somehow climb out while theyre being stabbed by knives, and then saying, they should pull themselves out by their bootstraps. But as I read bell hooks described scenario of a Black mother saying I don't give my son moeny for drugs, but she still buys food and pays rent for him, covering the gaps his addiction creates, I realized my perspective was warped, because I literally have a grandma who's like that, and its subconsciously normalized inside of me. So I love how Polly brought up compassion towards the sister, and how she's being kept dependent. The balance between holding someone accountable and having compassion for their circumstances is something no one ever masters, but LW writer, please speak up.
I think the most painful thing here for you to accept or deal with, is you can't control either of your parents' or sister's decision. You'll vastly increase your chances by not blowing up, by remaining calm and generally following Polly's advice, but if you spend too much time trying to talk to them, you could very well become wrapped in then drama. It's easy to go into the opposite direction. Remember Polly sauing to Step back and let them learn the hard way
Oo, yikes. As someone who has started multiple small businesses, there is absolutely no need to invest huge amounts starting out. Especially on something like a candle business. She should absolutely be able to self-fund that, and work to grow it within her means.
If at some point she wants to expand it to nation-wide levels of production, then sure, look into getting some funding. But that comes AFTER you’ve built a solid foundation of a successful business model. After you have proof-of-concept.
So sorry you’re having to watch your parents get sucked into her delusions. I sure hope you’re able to sober things up a bit. I understand not wanting to be the bad guy, but sometimes it’s the most loving thing..
First, I bought this house. My first house in LA, the owner was selling because she'd taken out ALL of the equity for one of her children's businesses...that failed. At the last minute as she had to move out into an apartment outside of Vegas, she refused. I felt for her as her other children were not willing to take her in. She'd alienated with them and they weren't going to save her. She did move, but she was very bitter that her retirement hadn't gone as she'd planned.
Second, LW, *I* would let it go. There's probably no inheritance coming, so you should do everything to shore up your own future.
Lastly, I know someone like this. He's 55 and his mom is still on FB talking about how he's going to be a millionaire soon. (This is like the 10th business last time I peeked). I feel for him in the sense that he has to call mom whenever he wants to buy groceries or pay the mortgage or buy a car...or...or. He lives his life in a panic of lack of self worth, smoking, and Xanax. It's not a great existence. I have no idea what the siblings think as most aren't speaking to him or his parents.
You gotta be okay with being the villain when you clearly see total nonsense and point it out to The Delulu that surrounds you. There is inner peace in seeing reality and seeing the fantasy hills that people climb, yell mad at you from, and then die on.
This is completely unrelated, but thank you for introducing me to the delightful work of Dorothea Tanning
I agree Al Anon/CoDA is a great first step to ending YOUR codependency/YOUR dysfunctional role in the family. I have been and I still appreciate the experience. It has helped me see the different stages of recovery from codependency of other attendees; some with a long road ahead and some who have made progress. Go for at least 6 meetings before deciding to truly commit to going regularly or stop going and try something else more attuned to your personal recovery.
I am ASTONISHED that these parents are thinking of doing anything so terribly risky as this in the Year of Our Nonbinary Deity 2024 when people over 65 are the fastest growing homeless population in the US. They seem to be desperate to help, but sinking their own ship will not help their drowning daughter! Your advice is spot on here. Even if the parents really do abandon their own ship to join their daughter by drowning together, at least this other daughter will know she attempted to stop it from happening.
WHAT???
Needless to say, the real victim is your sister.
She is not a victim, she is a volunteer - with no idea of what running a business might be like, she found willing backers to finance an overly saturated market without having a competitive edge. Does YANKEE CANDLE ring a bell?
The REAL victims are your parents, who were blindly seduced into giving a family member money without benefit of collateral or determining the ability to pay back the money lent. And guess who will feel responsible for looking after them in their dotage when sis is broke?
The time for you to speak up is past!
.
Oh my gawd....should Caroline York have her own advice column or what???
I just got on here to say thanks for the giggles but read the first two comments... 😅😅😅😅.... I didn't realise the comments section was here for us punters to add our 2 cents worth after reading (apparently for some) the very good advice that has already been given!
Okay, hhmmm...
So my advice is: run to your parents house and excitedly announce you had a dream that Reality and Common Sense infused candles was what would shoot your sisters business into the stratosphere but that you, as silent partner and 'ideas/dreams person' would require half of the 'investment' in cash, take it, since they seem to be throwing it away, and get the hell outta Dodge screaming BUSINESS PLAN as you go.
I think that OCH should form an S corporation, open a corporate investment account, put a little money in it, call herself a fund manager, and ask her parents for some more seed money.
-
This is not a beast that can be slain by a frontal assault.
It’s giving “Serenity by Jan”. Good luck and Godspeed LW ❤️🔥
I got ‘🎶she’s making jewelry now, she’s got her life on track 🎶 from Portlandia
I thought the same thing when I read 'candle company'. I felt like Pam, realizing OH NO, IT'S JAN!