My amazing boyfriend of going on three years, who I know is plotting a proposal, lights up when I wake up in the mornings, because now we can hang out. He tells me at least once a day how much he loves me and how much joy I bring him, he thinks that nearly everything I do is adorable and delights in it, he does things for me just because he knows I'll appreciate them having been done. It was weird at first! As someone who had been into ~ flinchy dudes in the past, and as someone who had never been loved or IN love before and to whom exuberant affection and affirmation did not come naturally, there was a nonzero amount of self-reflection and choice involved in taking him seriously and letting it fuel my own delight and confidence and love for him rather than Getting Weird About It. And the skeptical version of me isn't wrong, it IS delusion-- I am a perfectly loveable person, sure, but I am obviously not the goddess he worships me as. He is a wonderful man, but I probably do not need to be tearing up in the middle of the workday because I randomly thought about how much I love him. But who cares? Happy, healthy love is building a religion together. All religions are a lot of nonsense, but they are also very, very real. Like Polly says, it's about belief. We all deserve to love true believers, and to become ones ourselves.
"I did my best not to demonize him for this behavior, since he has been called heartless and robotic by previous partners."
I knew where this was going the second I read this. When his partners called him heartless and robotic, they weren't 'demonizing' him - they were describing how HE hurt THEM. If I was given this feedback by multiple partners, I would get myself in to therapy because I know that no one wants to be treated without compassion or understanding (and that's exactly what this is describing). It's incredibly telling that, when given this feedback, this guy instead resolves to find someone willing to put up with his poor treatment of her and frames HIMSELF as the one being insulted. He sitting there saying, "Other people think I don't treat them well, which is so MEAN to ME!"
Dump this guy and don't look back. He may have some good qualities, but he's not a good partner. Making threats to the relationship (either to end it or change the terms) after every argument is a manipulation tactic, pure and simple. It may be conscious or unconscious, but this guy is definitely trying to get you to keep your complaints to yourself. It's not a coincidence that he suddenly loves you less the second you start having needs and options that are different from his. He doesn't particularly like having to be considerate or accommodating of other people, so the second you try to bring up a conversation that could involve that, he immediately starts thinking of getting rid of you. Being considerate of others is a prerequisite for having a relationship of equals, and this guy should just be alone if that's too much to ask of him.
It's a losing game to try to keep a relationship with someone who doesn't want to give you any effort or consideration.
I dated a broken robot during lockdown. Believe me when I say NOTHING is a bigger relief than putting down the dead weight you've been trying to drag up an emotional hill with you. It's a little lonely for a while as you break the habit of trying to convince scrap metal to feel love, but it will be worth it.
I can say I successfully ended my long strings of robots by saying nay to the last mr. Robot. I found love in a man who's vulnerability I would gagged over 10 years ago. Why? Because he wants me and has no hidden agenda. It took me a while to get used to his sensitivity and unmachoness. I realized I deter nice men to keep things 'just like home'. And boy what a place 'home' was! This type that used to be a boring no-no to me, has completely transformed me. Opened me up to sides of me I never thought I had. Showing feelings, being flawed, messy, honest, broken, alongside of my really cool trades, which he never stops to see. I get back what i put in. This is a wonderful human being to be with, as am I. We show up for ourselves and eachother. And it does not matter the gender we call ourselves, as there are many defected women out there with 'princess syndrome'. Bottom line is self-development, and to stop creating toxic environments for men.
Thanks for acknowledging that this effect isn't a one-way-gender street. (Can I say that??) I'm a man. In my last two relationships I've put myself aside to become a caretaker (the taker/caretaker dynamic), not honoring myself in the same kind of ways discussed here. In the first one it even occurred to me that I seemed to have the more female energy in the pair, despite being outwardly masculine and active. In the second I became much more caretaking as I tried to please and placate and my partner became increasingly abusive. I became simply an enabler. But any caretaking is a controlling behavior, it's trying to control how someone else feels about you, it's important to understand that it's not just being kind. Relationship issues are never just one person doing something, there's always a dynamic, and you have to try to understand your part in it. What a learning experience for me, with help from an excellent therapist. The OP above DOES understand her part she just needs to learn that she has to ACT on that understanding, because something DIFFERENT is actually possible. I hope she takes Heather's words to heart. Honor yourself first! only then can you properly honor another person, and you will weed out all the robots.
Sorry to hear about the abuse you’ve been through. I’m so glad you bring your voice to this thread, James. It’s important. I know a man who has been through similar sounding experiences - bending himself backwards to take care of emotionally stunted, abusive partner. Being in touch with your nurturing side, being in touch with emotions is a strength, not weakness as boys are conditioned to think (you know this already). Let me just say, you’re a rare breed amongst your kind and that makes you even more special, as every woman here who wasted years dealing with robots will tell you!
If you haven’t found that someone special yet, I’m sure you will and you will make each other very happy.
Hi James, with pleasure my friend. And thank you for your comment! It is important for us women to know too that this is indeed a 2 way gender street, to use your words:) I work with women and their empowerment process. Often the term 'toxic masculinity' appears, which in patriarchy is not completely misplaced. That said, the shadowside of this term, I found, that it seems to mask the existence of 'toxic femininity'. As it often stereotypes men as perpetrators and women as helpless victims. And you see, a lot of times we don't even see we are toxic.
I was born in a low class, toxic environment. And statements about what men should be or do (if they really love you) are rampant. The things friends and colleagues preached and practised to solve relationship issues were borderline insane. When it was suspected the guy didnt care as much as the girl wanted, ooh, the trails began. I hope the next examples won't make you uncomfortable, but maybe you recognize it;
- Not answering the phone, silent treatment. (haha, all I know is that most guys loved these periods!) The next step would be making him jealous, by flirting or even dating other men, for this would supposedly return his hunting instincts.
Having to pay for things to make up for perceived mistakes, treating her to diners, gifts and whatever she wishes. Sexual abstinence is a big one. Or proving his merit as a 'real' man by renovating the house, etc, etc. I chuckling and facepalming as a write this. This should not be okay, but is generally accepted. We need more people like you speaking their values online, and standing up for them irl.
I know it goes both ways around. But I wanted to illustrate this as a woman. It is not about who's to blame. One book that really illustrates this is: 'recovering from emotionally immature parents- L. Gibson'. it does not blame, but shows behaviour is hereditary and how we can stop the cycle of abuse. In my opinion this is the quickest way to 'weed out all the robots"
I agree with Heather, run and run fast. I married this same guy despite the signs that you are seeing now: wishy washy about me, avoidant, ambivalent, unexpressive, unempathetic, incapable of having a conversation where I didn't leave more confused than when it began. There were never any reactions, empathy, sympathy - it was like living with a ghost and it only worsened after my daughter arrived.
And then one day, several years in, after making a home, having a beautiful child, and lots more, he, out of nowhere, says he doesn't love me anymore and wants a divorce. And, bam all done! It has taken me a few years to pick up the pieces and realize I wasn't ever deficient like he made me out to be. I was not wrong to have needs and wants and express emotions. He was just allergic and incapable. Although it's been character building and there were times I did not think I would make it through, I am starting to come out the other side. Thankful for my freedoms, my ability raise my daughter when she is with me with emotion, love and humor and sometimes craziness (in a good way) and that I can be the REAL ME. He never knew who I was as I always tiptoed afraid that too much expressiveness would make him run. And you know what, he ran anyway.
Trust me, if you are already having these feelings and seeing these reactions from him, it will only get worse. Being alone is far better than living with this shell of a person. Think long and hard before you accept this and free yourself of what I suspect will be years of confusion, sadness, questioning, and anxiety if you stay. Wishing you all the best!
Thank you for posting this! I agree that if you see this stuff early, you're in for a rough ride. Sometimes it emerges after a while. But when it's on the table from the beginning, you're up against a lifetime of defense mechanisms that are designed to shut you out. I also think this statement is evergreen: "I hid / changed myself so he'd stick around, but he ran anyway."
When I first met my ex of six years, he convinced me that non-robot love existed. After an adolescence spent negotiating half hearted situationships with men who treated me like an object and a body, this man SAW me. He treated me like I had changed his world into living color. He accepted me and loved, more than anything else, all of the qualities of my personality that I thought were embarassing or nerdy or too much. We met abroad and I remember traveling with him on long, hot days, days where I hadn't showered or had no makeup on or had developed a rash on my face from the stress of the travel or the hard versus soft water or whatever. He took photos of me like I was the most incredible, fascinating person he'd ever met, photos of me where I had fallen asleep in the back of a hot bus winding its way through mountains, with my hair over my face or in my mouth, photos that made me feel beautiful, photos like he was in awe of me. He wrote me poetry. He cried when I moved to another city and confessed his love for me way too early. I was avoidant at first, and hesitated to let him in, but once I felt safe I trusted him. I became completely myself: my messy, loud, bossy, emotional, empathic, "too much" self. About a year and a half into our relationship, after I'd begrudgingly agreed to move in with him, even though I didn't feel ready to move in with anyone (I was in my early twenties), he stopped. Stopped all the loving looks, stopped the random flowers or little things he'd pick up for me on his way home. Stopped putting his arms around me when I'd stand in the kitchen cooking for us, stopped listening to me when I spoke, actually winced when I walked into rooms, never sat next to me on the couch in a group of friends, never seemed to be in the same room as me at a party. He tried the same bullshit as the man in this letter, telling me he wasn't sure about us, telling me he had crushes on other people, telling other people he had crushes on other people, and then the second I would start to wake up and run, bringing me back over and over by promising to change. I would point blank ask him whether he wanted to be with me when he never seemed to want to be around me; he would swear he wanted to recommit to the relationship and then say, calmly, the cruelest thing he could think of the next day. He developed a substance use problem that exacerbated all of this and made it even more confusing and painful to imagine leaving him. And I wasted six years waiting for the beautiful, loving, shy, man, a man who took photos of me asleep in the back of a bus during the most magical year of my life, to come back. Surprise: he never, ever came back. He's gone. He ended up being just another robot. I can understand why he was a robot, given the trauma and difficulty of his childhood, but I never deserved what he did to me. It's taken me a year of therapy to finally, finally begin to heal and put myself back together. I write all of this to tell anyone who's confused by a "kind, adventurous, and independent man" who is now confusing, someone who treats them like garbage but once treated them like gold—it's utter pain and it feels impossible to leave him. But you have to leave him. He's never, ever changing. He wasn't the exception to the rule.
Wow, I just went through the same stuff recently. Literally one year into the relationship, that sweet man ... vanished. Vaporized. It feels like his evil twin shows up instead. Thank you for posting this Amy, I need this so much. I used to question myself if I was the mean one because whenever we had an argument, he always said "I try to bring up things rationally and am always seen as a monster in doing so". I guess I dodged a bullet.
I have a beautiful toddler girl and have to say I didn’t really know love until that they way I do now. I know this is supposed to be about men but I hope this LW can picture her beautiful inner toddler showing someone a sock or a leaf or how she can put on her coat BY HERSELF, and ask herself how she would want a loving adult to react. Like this flinchy dude? “That’s a cool leaf but I bet some other toddler out there has found a nicer leaf…” heck no! Harness mama bear energy for yourself and your own precious inner open-hearted toddler.
I have a beautiful toddler girl too! ❤️ The part that got me in this thing was the “I loved you last month. This month? Not so much.” What?? Imagine THAT being directed toward your adorable precious lovable little inner toddler and ye shall know fury like never before.
The problem is that a parent’s love for its child is unconditional. Other types of love are inherently conditional. Would you still love your partner if they treated you like the letter writer’s partner does? If they murdered someone? If they cheated on you? If their personality changed? Probably not, but a lot of parents would still love their kids even if their kids were serial killers or cruel to them.
Comparing romantic love to a parent’s love just isn’t helpful.
Lol, okay. Glad someone can finally let us know definitively which perspectives are definitely helpful for all people everywhere and which are not. Thanks!
The point is not that romantic love and parental love should be exactly the same, but that we often accept poor treatment from others that we’d be appalled and upset to see being directed toward people we love. It *could actually be helpful* to hear the reminder that our “inner toddlers” are deserving of love and compassion, and certainly we deserve basic decency from someone with whom we’ve entered into a romantic relationship. If you find this point “just not helpful”, okay, how wonderful for you. But you’re not the authority on what is helpful for absolutely everyone.
Ohh got it, you’re miserable. Well, the askpolly comments section is a *very* odd place to be shitting on people for being “sensitive,” but if you need to antagonize people to feel powerful, go right ahead. You’re the one who needs compassion most of all; hopefully you find it.
I’m self aware enough to know that I’m miserable, thank you. But I accept it rather than run from it. Isn’t that one of the messages in the Ask Polly column, though, to feel all the negativity, rather than stuffing it away?
I’d look in the mirror if I were you. You’re antagonizing an internet because . . . you’re upset that she doesn’t agree with your opinion? If you try self compassion rather than seeking external validation, you’ll be more comfortable with yourself and more pleasant for others to be around. They won’t have to walk on eggshells around you.
It’s because there aren’t enough of the others to go around.
I’d love to date a perfectly well adjusted man, but by my late 30s all of those I know are married.
So the choice becomes dating an attractive/independent robot or someone who isn’t attractive and who you have to take care of (eg, emotionally, financially). Neither seems like an appealing choice, but neither is growing old alone and never having a family. Those of us who didn’t settle young are left with three bad choices.
I hate to think what will happen to LW after leaving this dude and going out into the dating world and realizing what her realistic other options are . . .
Dec 22, 2021·edited Dec 22, 2021Liked by Heather Havrilesky
I have been this robot! The only way I grew from this was to recognise (finally) that the right partner wasn't going to come along and 'fix' me; nothing was going to change unless I made different choices. And I was deeply motivated to change by the suffering I kept causing myself and others: this was not in line with my values in any other part of my life, yet there was a very broken circuit where romantic relationships live. When I learned that the power to change lived *inside me* it was tremendously liberating. Reading Ask Polly has played no small part in that. Now I read Polly and practical attachment-theory-based advice books as a way to reflect consciously on how I am growing, to seek joy in the everyday things, and to invest creatively in my relationship with a Good Man. Something as simple as 'Try actually listening to your partner!' - and then showing up for that deep listening - can be enough to feel a robot circuit soften into something more human.
Awwww, so nice! Thanks for posting this. The adjustments really are so simple. Congratulations on being open enough to notice bad patterns and grow beyond them. xo
So glad that "Dump him" were the first words of the response. Writer, I completely identify with where you're at right now -- you're sitting there trying to figure out how if you were just prettier, or cooler, or less boring, etc. you might be good enough for this guy to want to be with just you. But I guarantee you, you could not be enough of anything for this guy to truly stick around at this point in his life. You could be literally anyone and he would be doing this exact same thing. What I would love to see for you is a mental shift in where you think the power in this situation lies. You're giving him the power to reject you, but in reality that's not the case. The TRUE story here is that this guy is showing you his real colors. You didn't have all the information before, but now you do...and so you get to decide what to do with it. You have the power to not choose someone who isn't capable of what you need.
Also, a quick thought on vulnerability. Yes, a huge part of love is being vulnerable with someone. But there's good vulnerability and bad vulnerability. When you're putting yourself in a situation where it it is clear from the beginning that harm to yourself is inevitable (which is the situation if you stay with him), then that's bad vulnerability. It's dropping yourself naked into a bear pit covered in honey. You can make the decision now, before you get deeper, to instead choose a relationship that is safe enough for the kind of vulnerability Polly is talking about. And you are gonna get to that safe place eventually, and you'll find the kind of secure, fulfilling love you deserve!
As a former girlfriend of flinchy robot boys (one ex-boyfriend of mine told me he wasn't sure he knew what love was, after being in a relationship with me for nearly three years), I am here to confirm that there are open-hearted dudes out there! Life can be different and sweet and lovely!
Since my new-ish boyfriend and I started dating this spring, I've never once doubted his feelings for me. He is unfailingly kind, loving, and considerate, and does big and little things to make me happy without expecting anything in return (although of course I do the same for him!). He tells me all the time that I'm his favorite person, and that he is just happy that I want to be with him. After dating several robot boys, it took me a while to adjust to being on the receiving end of this torrent of love and affection, but it turns out that it's actually really nice! As someone who can be a bit guarded myself, he gives me permission to let my guard down and be as sappy as I want to be deep down inside, and that's when the good stuff can grow. Love is a little bit cringe, but it's also amazing. LW, you deserve to be with someone who loves you the way you want to be loved.
But plenty of other commenters have said their relationships started out like this and then changed — the man turned into a robot after six months, a year-and-a-half, six years (the shit or get off the pot moment). Why do you think yours will be different?
There are differences in the descriptions of relationships that suddenly end, if you look closely. There's a discomfort that pervades relationships that are built to decay. I've been in many relationships like that. And there's a comfort and peace and trust in relationships that feel solid and right. I've been in a few like that, too. If she feels good and knows that she can let her guard down and sees that there's no punishment waiting for opening her heart the way she does, then it's easy to have faith in that. Sure, it's obvious that no one knows what will last beyond a month or a year or a decade. But sometimes you just know. I hated it when people said that before I met my husband. And it's not like it's a guarantee that a thing will last forever. But it's still true: Sometimes you just know.
Oh Polly. Thank you so much for publishing this letter and the advice. My own robot broke up with me a month ago - we had a fight and since then his feelings have changed. And here I am me too, sitting in my childhood room, and even though part of the sadness is gone, the despair was washing me over after an afternoon of Christmas shopping. I picked up the phone and read the letter (I am not alone) and the advice (it is not ok to break up like that). I’ll read the comments later tonight but this is literally the best I could put my hands on at this precise moment. So thank you so much Polly and all. ❤️🩹
This kicked me right in the teeth. As Brene Brown says, the truth will set you free but first it will piss you off.
“Your romantic future will be about showing your vulnerable heart” may need to get that on a coffee mug or a dainty tattoo. From one people pleaser lover of robots sitting in her childhood bedroom to another, We Always Go Home Again, sending you sweet messy vulnerability and the courage to try something new (courage I’ll be mustering too).
Also, the men! Why are they so meh! Second the question WHO IS GROWING THEM and can you please stop!!!!
I feel for this person. She has done a lot of work to identify the pattern but that does not mean she has escaped. And once she does escape, how likely is she to find the love we all believe in? Your advice is great, as usual, but I gotta say from experience that the more you heal and not settle for less than you deserve, the less likely you are going to want to sign up for a relationship with most men currently on the market. The large majority of dudes do not do even a tiny fraction of the kind of self-work that your single women readers have been engaged with over the years - the single men in my age bracket, especially (50-55). I still believe in love, but honoring yourself is a lonely business.
Yes I feel you! I personally believe we need to grow/are growing collectively beyond (toxic) heterosexuality. There are many people in their teens and twenties now growing up more queer. I have grown up believing I was a heterosexual girl, but struggling with the scripts of it. I have been a robot ánd I have been working hard to keep my needs and expectations low. I have been a contradictory, conflicted unfeeling distant desperate and depressed mess. It has taken me very long to unfeel the appeal of emotionally distant and elusive men. I have been in a non-monogamous relationship for some years now with the kindest sweetest spirited person 7 years youngers than me. I feel like I have moved beyond the realm of love and heterosexuality as I knew it, to end up in a thinly populated land for romance. But there is love, and kindness and joy here. I don’t know if I will ever be with someone in the way that people here might dream about. I am not sure if I want it, or if it is for me in this time of history, but I dream about love and connection between all species and genders in many different ways anyway.
Non-monogamy requires a lot of putting words to feelings by the way, and being emotionally available and trust-worthy. It is definitely not an escape card for monogamous relationships going through difficulties, as it is often imagined. The appeal of non-mongamy to me is that it makes me feel loved for who I am rather than for filling up a position for partner -although I realise this is not how a monogamous relationship should feel either, ideally. It is also a better feeling starting position for me to love and appreciate another person and the relationship we have, without overburdening it with demands or compromising your own needs. Actually, I think non-monogamy can be practised without having other partners or lovers involved -to me it is more about being reflective of the pitfalls and gendertraps of hetero-monogamy and making a real effort to do it differently (instead of the lazy still very patriarchal cis-dude idea of polyamory where it is about centering mostly the man's needs and avoiding emotional difficulties!)
I just got out of a somewhat similar situation---although my ex was more loving and affectionate than I ever had previously and wanted to be with me until he didn't. We talked about opening our relationship (both agreed it wasn't for us) and then he wanted to put an arbitrary end date to our relationship "while things were still good" so that we wouldn't hurt each other in the future. I ended up ending things because that doesn't make sense and I didn't want to countdown to the end of our relationship. Not sure what breed of broken robot I ended up with but I think I'm on my way to finally being with a non-robot.
My amazing boyfriend of going on three years, who I know is plotting a proposal, lights up when I wake up in the mornings, because now we can hang out. He tells me at least once a day how much he loves me and how much joy I bring him, he thinks that nearly everything I do is adorable and delights in it, he does things for me just because he knows I'll appreciate them having been done. It was weird at first! As someone who had been into ~ flinchy dudes in the past, and as someone who had never been loved or IN love before and to whom exuberant affection and affirmation did not come naturally, there was a nonzero amount of self-reflection and choice involved in taking him seriously and letting it fuel my own delight and confidence and love for him rather than Getting Weird About It. And the skeptical version of me isn't wrong, it IS delusion-- I am a perfectly loveable person, sure, but I am obviously not the goddess he worships me as. He is a wonderful man, but I probably do not need to be tearing up in the middle of the workday because I randomly thought about how much I love him. But who cares? Happy, healthy love is building a religion together. All religions are a lot of nonsense, but they are also very, very real. Like Polly says, it's about belief. We all deserve to love true believers, and to become ones ourselves.
crying!!! so good. thank you!
How wonderful! Congratulations on having found a real love - this message is an inspiration.
Holy cow, this is goin' in my scrapbook, and I'll be mentally quoting it forever. Thank you.
"I did my best not to demonize him for this behavior, since he has been called heartless and robotic by previous partners."
I knew where this was going the second I read this. When his partners called him heartless and robotic, they weren't 'demonizing' him - they were describing how HE hurt THEM. If I was given this feedback by multiple partners, I would get myself in to therapy because I know that no one wants to be treated without compassion or understanding (and that's exactly what this is describing). It's incredibly telling that, when given this feedback, this guy instead resolves to find someone willing to put up with his poor treatment of her and frames HIMSELF as the one being insulted. He sitting there saying, "Other people think I don't treat them well, which is so MEAN to ME!"
Dump this guy and don't look back. He may have some good qualities, but he's not a good partner. Making threats to the relationship (either to end it or change the terms) after every argument is a manipulation tactic, pure and simple. It may be conscious or unconscious, but this guy is definitely trying to get you to keep your complaints to yourself. It's not a coincidence that he suddenly loves you less the second you start having needs and options that are different from his. He doesn't particularly like having to be considerate or accommodating of other people, so the second you try to bring up a conversation that could involve that, he immediately starts thinking of getting rid of you. Being considerate of others is a prerequisite for having a relationship of equals, and this guy should just be alone if that's too much to ask of him.
It's a losing game to try to keep a relationship with someone who doesn't want to give you any effort or consideration.
I dated a broken robot during lockdown. Believe me when I say NOTHING is a bigger relief than putting down the dead weight you've been trying to drag up an emotional hill with you. It's a little lonely for a while as you break the habit of trying to convince scrap metal to feel love, but it will be worth it.
I can say I successfully ended my long strings of robots by saying nay to the last mr. Robot. I found love in a man who's vulnerability I would gagged over 10 years ago. Why? Because he wants me and has no hidden agenda. It took me a while to get used to his sensitivity and unmachoness. I realized I deter nice men to keep things 'just like home'. And boy what a place 'home' was! This type that used to be a boring no-no to me, has completely transformed me. Opened me up to sides of me I never thought I had. Showing feelings, being flawed, messy, honest, broken, alongside of my really cool trades, which he never stops to see. I get back what i put in. This is a wonderful human being to be with, as am I. We show up for ourselves and eachother. And it does not matter the gender we call ourselves, as there are many defected women out there with 'princess syndrome'. Bottom line is self-development, and to stop creating toxic environments for men.
Thanks for acknowledging that this effect isn't a one-way-gender street. (Can I say that??) I'm a man. In my last two relationships I've put myself aside to become a caretaker (the taker/caretaker dynamic), not honoring myself in the same kind of ways discussed here. In the first one it even occurred to me that I seemed to have the more female energy in the pair, despite being outwardly masculine and active. In the second I became much more caretaking as I tried to please and placate and my partner became increasingly abusive. I became simply an enabler. But any caretaking is a controlling behavior, it's trying to control how someone else feels about you, it's important to understand that it's not just being kind. Relationship issues are never just one person doing something, there's always a dynamic, and you have to try to understand your part in it. What a learning experience for me, with help from an excellent therapist. The OP above DOES understand her part she just needs to learn that she has to ACT on that understanding, because something DIFFERENT is actually possible. I hope she takes Heather's words to heart. Honor yourself first! only then can you properly honor another person, and you will weed out all the robots.
Sorry to hear about the abuse you’ve been through. I’m so glad you bring your voice to this thread, James. It’s important. I know a man who has been through similar sounding experiences - bending himself backwards to take care of emotionally stunted, abusive partner. Being in touch with your nurturing side, being in touch with emotions is a strength, not weakness as boys are conditioned to think (you know this already). Let me just say, you’re a rare breed amongst your kind and that makes you even more special, as every woman here who wasted years dealing with robots will tell you!
If you haven’t found that someone special yet, I’m sure you will and you will make each other very happy.
Hi James, with pleasure my friend. And thank you for your comment! It is important for us women to know too that this is indeed a 2 way gender street, to use your words:) I work with women and their empowerment process. Often the term 'toxic masculinity' appears, which in patriarchy is not completely misplaced. That said, the shadowside of this term, I found, that it seems to mask the existence of 'toxic femininity'. As it often stereotypes men as perpetrators and women as helpless victims. And you see, a lot of times we don't even see we are toxic.
I was born in a low class, toxic environment. And statements about what men should be or do (if they really love you) are rampant. The things friends and colleagues preached and practised to solve relationship issues were borderline insane. When it was suspected the guy didnt care as much as the girl wanted, ooh, the trails began. I hope the next examples won't make you uncomfortable, but maybe you recognize it;
- Not answering the phone, silent treatment. (haha, all I know is that most guys loved these periods!) The next step would be making him jealous, by flirting or even dating other men, for this would supposedly return his hunting instincts.
Having to pay for things to make up for perceived mistakes, treating her to diners, gifts and whatever she wishes. Sexual abstinence is a big one. Or proving his merit as a 'real' man by renovating the house, etc, etc. I chuckling and facepalming as a write this. This should not be okay, but is generally accepted. We need more people like you speaking their values online, and standing up for them irl.
I know it goes both ways around. But I wanted to illustrate this as a woman. It is not about who's to blame. One book that really illustrates this is: 'recovering from emotionally immature parents- L. Gibson'. it does not blame, but shows behaviour is hereditary and how we can stop the cycle of abuse. In my opinion this is the quickest way to 'weed out all the robots"
Me too and I an sooooo happy! Happy for you too!
I agree with Heather, run and run fast. I married this same guy despite the signs that you are seeing now: wishy washy about me, avoidant, ambivalent, unexpressive, unempathetic, incapable of having a conversation where I didn't leave more confused than when it began. There were never any reactions, empathy, sympathy - it was like living with a ghost and it only worsened after my daughter arrived.
And then one day, several years in, after making a home, having a beautiful child, and lots more, he, out of nowhere, says he doesn't love me anymore and wants a divorce. And, bam all done! It has taken me a few years to pick up the pieces and realize I wasn't ever deficient like he made me out to be. I was not wrong to have needs and wants and express emotions. He was just allergic and incapable. Although it's been character building and there were times I did not think I would make it through, I am starting to come out the other side. Thankful for my freedoms, my ability raise my daughter when she is with me with emotion, love and humor and sometimes craziness (in a good way) and that I can be the REAL ME. He never knew who I was as I always tiptoed afraid that too much expressiveness would make him run. And you know what, he ran anyway.
Trust me, if you are already having these feelings and seeing these reactions from him, it will only get worse. Being alone is far better than living with this shell of a person. Think long and hard before you accept this and free yourself of what I suspect will be years of confusion, sadness, questioning, and anxiety if you stay. Wishing you all the best!
Thank you for posting this! I agree that if you see this stuff early, you're in for a rough ride. Sometimes it emerges after a while. But when it's on the table from the beginning, you're up against a lifetime of defense mechanisms that are designed to shut you out. I also think this statement is evergreen: "I hid / changed myself so he'd stick around, but he ran anyway."
When I first met my ex of six years, he convinced me that non-robot love existed. After an adolescence spent negotiating half hearted situationships with men who treated me like an object and a body, this man SAW me. He treated me like I had changed his world into living color. He accepted me and loved, more than anything else, all of the qualities of my personality that I thought were embarassing or nerdy or too much. We met abroad and I remember traveling with him on long, hot days, days where I hadn't showered or had no makeup on or had developed a rash on my face from the stress of the travel or the hard versus soft water or whatever. He took photos of me like I was the most incredible, fascinating person he'd ever met, photos of me where I had fallen asleep in the back of a hot bus winding its way through mountains, with my hair over my face or in my mouth, photos that made me feel beautiful, photos like he was in awe of me. He wrote me poetry. He cried when I moved to another city and confessed his love for me way too early. I was avoidant at first, and hesitated to let him in, but once I felt safe I trusted him. I became completely myself: my messy, loud, bossy, emotional, empathic, "too much" self. About a year and a half into our relationship, after I'd begrudgingly agreed to move in with him, even though I didn't feel ready to move in with anyone (I was in my early twenties), he stopped. Stopped all the loving looks, stopped the random flowers or little things he'd pick up for me on his way home. Stopped putting his arms around me when I'd stand in the kitchen cooking for us, stopped listening to me when I spoke, actually winced when I walked into rooms, never sat next to me on the couch in a group of friends, never seemed to be in the same room as me at a party. He tried the same bullshit as the man in this letter, telling me he wasn't sure about us, telling me he had crushes on other people, telling other people he had crushes on other people, and then the second I would start to wake up and run, bringing me back over and over by promising to change. I would point blank ask him whether he wanted to be with me when he never seemed to want to be around me; he would swear he wanted to recommit to the relationship and then say, calmly, the cruelest thing he could think of the next day. He developed a substance use problem that exacerbated all of this and made it even more confusing and painful to imagine leaving him. And I wasted six years waiting for the beautiful, loving, shy, man, a man who took photos of me asleep in the back of a bus during the most magical year of my life, to come back. Surprise: he never, ever came back. He's gone. He ended up being just another robot. I can understand why he was a robot, given the trauma and difficulty of his childhood, but I never deserved what he did to me. It's taken me a year of therapy to finally, finally begin to heal and put myself back together. I write all of this to tell anyone who's confused by a "kind, adventurous, and independent man" who is now confusing, someone who treats them like garbage but once treated them like gold—it's utter pain and it feels impossible to leave him. But you have to leave him. He's never, ever changing. He wasn't the exception to the rule.
Wow, I just went through the same stuff recently. Literally one year into the relationship, that sweet man ... vanished. Vaporized. It feels like his evil twin shows up instead. Thank you for posting this Amy, I need this so much. I used to question myself if I was the mean one because whenever we had an argument, he always said "I try to bring up things rationally and am always seen as a monster in doing so". I guess I dodged a bullet.
I have a beautiful toddler girl and have to say I didn’t really know love until that they way I do now. I know this is supposed to be about men but I hope this LW can picture her beautiful inner toddler showing someone a sock or a leaf or how she can put on her coat BY HERSELF, and ask herself how she would want a loving adult to react. Like this flinchy dude? “That’s a cool leaf but I bet some other toddler out there has found a nicer leaf…” heck no! Harness mama bear energy for yourself and your own precious inner open-hearted toddler.
I have a beautiful toddler girl too! ❤️ The part that got me in this thing was the “I loved you last month. This month? Not so much.” What?? Imagine THAT being directed toward your adorable precious lovable little inner toddler and ye shall know fury like never before.
The problem is that a parent’s love for its child is unconditional. Other types of love are inherently conditional. Would you still love your partner if they treated you like the letter writer’s partner does? If they murdered someone? If they cheated on you? If their personality changed? Probably not, but a lot of parents would still love their kids even if their kids were serial killers or cruel to them.
Comparing romantic love to a parent’s love just isn’t helpful.
Lol, okay. Glad someone can finally let us know definitively which perspectives are definitely helpful for all people everywhere and which are not. Thanks!
The point is not that romantic love and parental love should be exactly the same, but that we often accept poor treatment from others that we’d be appalled and upset to see being directed toward people we love. It *could actually be helpful* to hear the reminder that our “inner toddlers” are deserving of love and compassion, and certainly we deserve basic decency from someone with whom we’ve entered into a romantic relationship. If you find this point “just not helpful”, okay, how wonderful for you. But you’re not the authority on what is helpful for absolutely everyone.
Wow. Someone has a sensitive and easily offended inner toddler. Good luck out there in the real world.
Ohh got it, you’re miserable. Well, the askpolly comments section is a *very* odd place to be shitting on people for being “sensitive,” but if you need to antagonize people to feel powerful, go right ahead. You’re the one who needs compassion most of all; hopefully you find it.
I’m self aware enough to know that I’m miserable, thank you. But I accept it rather than run from it. Isn’t that one of the messages in the Ask Polly column, though, to feel all the negativity, rather than stuffing it away?
I’d look in the mirror if I were you. You’re antagonizing an internet because . . . you’re upset that she doesn’t agree with your opinion? If you try self compassion rather than seeking external validation, you’ll be more comfortable with yourself and more pleasant for others to be around. They won’t have to walk on eggshells around you.
My god. there are so many broken men out there managing to hold the attention of wonderful women, my mind fucking boggles.
Thank god for my therapist 💛
It’s because there aren’t enough of the others to go around.
I’d love to date a perfectly well adjusted man, but by my late 30s all of those I know are married.
So the choice becomes dating an attractive/independent robot or someone who isn’t attractive and who you have to take care of (eg, emotionally, financially). Neither seems like an appealing choice, but neither is growing old alone and never having a family. Those of us who didn’t settle young are left with three bad choices.
I hate to think what will happen to LW after leaving this dude and going out into the dating world and realizing what her realistic other options are . . .
I have been this robot! The only way I grew from this was to recognise (finally) that the right partner wasn't going to come along and 'fix' me; nothing was going to change unless I made different choices. And I was deeply motivated to change by the suffering I kept causing myself and others: this was not in line with my values in any other part of my life, yet there was a very broken circuit where romantic relationships live. When I learned that the power to change lived *inside me* it was tremendously liberating. Reading Ask Polly has played no small part in that. Now I read Polly and practical attachment-theory-based advice books as a way to reflect consciously on how I am growing, to seek joy in the everyday things, and to invest creatively in my relationship with a Good Man. Something as simple as 'Try actually listening to your partner!' - and then showing up for that deep listening - can be enough to feel a robot circuit soften into something more human.
Awwww, so nice! Thanks for posting this. The adjustments really are so simple. Congratulations on being open enough to notice bad patterns and grow beyond them. xo
Beautiful; so much courage in this.
So glad that "Dump him" were the first words of the response. Writer, I completely identify with where you're at right now -- you're sitting there trying to figure out how if you were just prettier, or cooler, or less boring, etc. you might be good enough for this guy to want to be with just you. But I guarantee you, you could not be enough of anything for this guy to truly stick around at this point in his life. You could be literally anyone and he would be doing this exact same thing. What I would love to see for you is a mental shift in where you think the power in this situation lies. You're giving him the power to reject you, but in reality that's not the case. The TRUE story here is that this guy is showing you his real colors. You didn't have all the information before, but now you do...and so you get to decide what to do with it. You have the power to not choose someone who isn't capable of what you need.
Also, a quick thought on vulnerability. Yes, a huge part of love is being vulnerable with someone. But there's good vulnerability and bad vulnerability. When you're putting yourself in a situation where it it is clear from the beginning that harm to yourself is inevitable (which is the situation if you stay with him), then that's bad vulnerability. It's dropping yourself naked into a bear pit covered in honey. You can make the decision now, before you get deeper, to instead choose a relationship that is safe enough for the kind of vulnerability Polly is talking about. And you are gonna get to that safe place eventually, and you'll find the kind of secure, fulfilling love you deserve!
Absolutely
As a former girlfriend of flinchy robot boys (one ex-boyfriend of mine told me he wasn't sure he knew what love was, after being in a relationship with me for nearly three years), I am here to confirm that there are open-hearted dudes out there! Life can be different and sweet and lovely!
Since my new-ish boyfriend and I started dating this spring, I've never once doubted his feelings for me. He is unfailingly kind, loving, and considerate, and does big and little things to make me happy without expecting anything in return (although of course I do the same for him!). He tells me all the time that I'm his favorite person, and that he is just happy that I want to be with him. After dating several robot boys, it took me a while to adjust to being on the receiving end of this torrent of love and affection, but it turns out that it's actually really nice! As someone who can be a bit guarded myself, he gives me permission to let my guard down and be as sappy as I want to be deep down inside, and that's when the good stuff can grow. Love is a little bit cringe, but it's also amazing. LW, you deserve to be with someone who loves you the way you want to be loved.
LOVE IS INDEED A LITTLE BIT CRINGE. Favorite comment ever. Embrace the cringe!
But plenty of other commenters have said their relationships started out like this and then changed — the man turned into a robot after six months, a year-and-a-half, six years (the shit or get off the pot moment). Why do you think yours will be different?
There are differences in the descriptions of relationships that suddenly end, if you look closely. There's a discomfort that pervades relationships that are built to decay. I've been in many relationships like that. And there's a comfort and peace and trust in relationships that feel solid and right. I've been in a few like that, too. If she feels good and knows that she can let her guard down and sees that there's no punishment waiting for opening her heart the way she does, then it's easy to have faith in that. Sure, it's obvious that no one knows what will last beyond a month or a year or a decade. But sometimes you just know. I hated it when people said that before I met my husband. And it's not like it's a guarantee that a thing will last forever. But it's still true: Sometimes you just know.
Oh Polly. Thank you so much for publishing this letter and the advice. My own robot broke up with me a month ago - we had a fight and since then his feelings have changed. And here I am me too, sitting in my childhood room, and even though part of the sadness is gone, the despair was washing me over after an afternoon of Christmas shopping. I picked up the phone and read the letter (I am not alone) and the advice (it is not ok to break up like that). I’ll read the comments later tonight but this is literally the best I could put my hands on at this precise moment. So thank you so much Polly and all. ❤️🩹
This kicked me right in the teeth. As Brene Brown says, the truth will set you free but first it will piss you off.
“Your romantic future will be about showing your vulnerable heart” may need to get that on a coffee mug or a dainty tattoo. From one people pleaser lover of robots sitting in her childhood bedroom to another, We Always Go Home Again, sending you sweet messy vulnerability and the courage to try something new (courage I’ll be mustering too).
Also, the men! Why are they so meh! Second the question WHO IS GROWING THEM and can you please stop!!!!
I feel for this person. She has done a lot of work to identify the pattern but that does not mean she has escaped. And once she does escape, how likely is she to find the love we all believe in? Your advice is great, as usual, but I gotta say from experience that the more you heal and not settle for less than you deserve, the less likely you are going to want to sign up for a relationship with most men currently on the market. The large majority of dudes do not do even a tiny fraction of the kind of self-work that your single women readers have been engaged with over the years - the single men in my age bracket, especially (50-55). I still believe in love, but honoring yourself is a lonely business.
Yes I feel you! I personally believe we need to grow/are growing collectively beyond (toxic) heterosexuality. There are many people in their teens and twenties now growing up more queer. I have grown up believing I was a heterosexual girl, but struggling with the scripts of it. I have been a robot ánd I have been working hard to keep my needs and expectations low. I have been a contradictory, conflicted unfeeling distant desperate and depressed mess. It has taken me very long to unfeel the appeal of emotionally distant and elusive men. I have been in a non-monogamous relationship for some years now with the kindest sweetest spirited person 7 years youngers than me. I feel like I have moved beyond the realm of love and heterosexuality as I knew it, to end up in a thinly populated land for romance. But there is love, and kindness and joy here. I don’t know if I will ever be with someone in the way that people here might dream about. I am not sure if I want it, or if it is for me in this time of history, but I dream about love and connection between all species and genders in many different ways anyway.
Non-monogamy requires a lot of putting words to feelings by the way, and being emotionally available and trust-worthy. It is definitely not an escape card for monogamous relationships going through difficulties, as it is often imagined. The appeal of non-mongamy to me is that it makes me feel loved for who I am rather than for filling up a position for partner -although I realise this is not how a monogamous relationship should feel either, ideally. It is also a better feeling starting position for me to love and appreciate another person and the relationship we have, without overburdening it with demands or compromising your own needs. Actually, I think non-monogamy can be practised without having other partners or lovers involved -to me it is more about being reflective of the pitfalls and gendertraps of hetero-monogamy and making a real effort to do it differently (instead of the lazy still very patriarchal cis-dude idea of polyamory where it is about centering mostly the man's needs and avoiding emotional difficulties!)
YES nailed it! I wish I could email this to so many men (but that would necessitate unblocking them, ha). Fuck those bad robots.
lol not worth the unblock
I just got out of a somewhat similar situation---although my ex was more loving and affectionate than I ever had previously and wanted to be with me until he didn't. We talked about opening our relationship (both agreed it wasn't for us) and then he wanted to put an arbitrary end date to our relationship "while things were still good" so that we wouldn't hurt each other in the future. I ended up ending things because that doesn't make sense and I didn't want to countdown to the end of our relationship. Not sure what breed of broken robot I ended up with but I think I'm on my way to finally being with a non-robot.