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I want to add one thing: SOMEONE ELSE'S PASTURE MIGHT BE YOUR STEEP CLIFF. In other words, sometimes these things don't boil down to NARCISSIST or NOT A NARCISSIST -or- ANXIOUS or AVOIDANT. (Right now my opinion is that most people are a little anxiously attached even if their childhoods were great because our culture and the ways we communicate and socialize are so BROKEN.) Sometimes the other person is perfectly secure and seems healthy but the whole thing still feels OFF. You just don't feel heard or seen or loved and when you try to express any dimension of that sensation, you're treated in a way that makes you feel smaller and smaller.

It's so easy to blame ourselves for these sensations, and to tell ourselves that if we weren't so paranoid or so insecure or so damaged, we would be easier going. SHAME will prevent you from looking at the truth, in other words.

But this is also why I say DON'T ANALYZE IT TO DEATH. You don't need a court of law to rule you the healthy one. You don't need to make sure you're right and she's wrong, or everyone agrees that she's a monster. You can simply say IT FEELS BAD and trust that and not even blame the other person for any of it.

And the less shame you feel (because you keep forgiving yourself every day for being a regular flawed human like anyone else!), the easier it becomes to release other people into the wild without proclaiming them BAD or BROKEN. You don't have to prove to everyone you know that they're rotten, or draw up documents that list the chronology of each offense or misunderstanding. You can just say THAT DIDN'T WORK. No harm no foul. We don't make sense together.

I used to have so much anxiety about cutting anything off, and that led to way too much circular thinking. That guilt meant that I would even get mad at myself in the most small-stakes friendships. I would start a friendship and then when it wasn't any fun at all, I would get upset about it. I would make it about how there's *something fucked up* about that person. All I had to do was give myself the right to have a preference about people! All I had to do was say "that wasn't fun, we don't connect that much, I think I won't do that again."

In romantic relationships, this translates into trying to either win someone over at all costs or trying to escape instead of just showing up and seeing what's there. You're afraid of feeling guilty again, or getting rejected again, more than you're open to reality. You hear lots of single people speak in these terms all the time: They want to prevent mishaps more than they want to connect. Understandable, honestly! But hard.

Keeping things simple is so important: "That was good." or "That felt wrong." "I trust him for some reason." or "I feel like I have to prove myself constantly." LETTING REALITY IN IS ENOUGH. It's better than analysis. It's better than blame. But shame and fear block reality, so they need to be addressed if you really want to show up and see what's in front of you.

Remembering that MANY people will not like you and that you will not like MANY MANY people is part of honoring reality. Your goal is not to make everyone like you, or trying to like people you don't like. Your goal is to notice what you love, what feels good, what makes sense, and to treat yourself and others with compassion along the way. It doesn't have to be difficult or dramatic in many cases. It can be simple and easy, particularly once you learn to accept and enjoy your flawed, humble self AS IS.

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Sep 5, 2023
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I have a lot of thoughts about this, and you're right, it *is* a completely different challenge. With your permission, I'd like to answer it in a column so I can go into more detail. If you want to add any specifics, you could email me this post plus any additional details you think are important: askpolly @ protonmail.com. Thank you for asking! Love this question and would truly enjoy writing more about it -- as someone who's had similar challenges with family and now lives a few miles away from her mother!

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Sep 5, 2023
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Well hot damn — I have had a draft of an email to send to Polly for MONTHS that deals with this exact issue and I was going to comment here with something similar to your question, SC, except that I finally acknowledged that “love shouldn’t feel bad” and actually DID cut ties with my father and stepmother (the only parents I have; they married not long after my mom died suddenly when I was a small child). Part of why I am longing to hear what Polly has to say about this is because I feel so alone in this experience, meaning, I don’t know anyone else who has “done this to” their parents (even though I feel justified after *decades* of being gaslit, dismissed, criticized, and disrespected). It’s been almost a year since I went no-contact with them and it’s the most freeing feeling … except for the guilt that gnaws at me.

Maybe I’ll send that letter anyway, and Polly can examine this idea from a few angles.

Anyway, what I mean to say is — I feel you, SC. It’s an awful, sick feeling when the love from a parent feels so bad. You’re not alone.

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I needed to read this today. A few months ago I left a long-term relationship after years of being called codependent - I know what that is, and I’m not that, he called me that anytime I needed anything from him that wasn’t related to performing some kind of chore or task. I was also accused of making him responsible for my emotions any time I simply expressed an emotion in his presence. It was a horrible way to live.

But yesterday I started doubting myself. We still have frequent contact because coparenting and I know he’s not a bad guy. Things have been hard financially living on my own, and lately I’ve been dipping my toe into the whole online dating scene which is bringing up a ton of insecurity and fear for me. Last night I went to a dark place where I started wondering if I’d made a terrible mistake. I started thinking maybe I’ll never find someone capable of actual emotional intimacy and will die alone and destitute to boot. Maybe I should have settled for this overall decent guy and just accepted his inability to handle emotions.

Then I woke up and read this and remembered in full force what it actually felt like to live with him in this way all those years. Thank you for the reminder that someone doesn’t have to be abusive to be fundamentally incompatible. I just need to remember that while it’s hard right now, I’m clearing the way for what I actually want and need in life. Just because I’m lonely and broke right now doesn’t mean ending it was a mistake.

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Sometimes a partner believes that they love you, but they don't want any of your emotions in the room, ever. They love the idea of you, not the reality of being with an actual human who has feelings. No matter how happy your ex appears and how lonely you feel as you adjust to this change, you have to remember how bad it felt being gaslit JUST for being a human all those years. I try not to overuse that word but that's just how it feels to be told, essentially, that a desire for a deep connection makes you codependent.

I'm sorry for everything you're going through right now! Let yourself feel sad when you're sad, but know that your life is becoming more full and rich and beautiful right now in ways you probably can't detect yet. The more you honor yourself and you're true to your desires, the more you'll awaken to everything you own. Enjoy the sensations as much as you can. Even longing doesn't have to feel lonely. It's a sign that you're fully alive and you have a lot more life ahead of you. xoxo

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Aww, damn it now I’m all teary. I think that you are right, thank you for saying this.

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I hope you don’t mind me chiming in, someone can be a nice person but not capable of intimacy or the empathy a relationship requires. That can eat you up. Having had genuinely abusive relationships it took me a minute to realize when I dated someone nice but unavailable and afraid of intimacy that they can be both. It’s also ok if that isn’t enough for me. You know it’s not too much to express sadness and hope for comfort, you have to believe you can find that. The voice that told you to go is a strong one. Sending love to you.

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Absolutely. I’ve also been in actual abusive relationships, so when I met my now ex my bar was set pretty low. At time, it was progress - being able to recognize and walk away from someone who is abusive early was huge after growing up the way I did. But now, I have to think surely I can have more than simply *not abusive*. And if that takes years to actually happen, which it might, it’s a good opportunity to learn how to be happy on my own. Sending love to you as well!

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Thank you for sharing what you had, and for doing what you did. I'm in a loveless marriage for 15+ years and staying because of similar fears - after the fact fearing i made the wrong decision, i'll be lonely, will have to work harder to make more income and i'm spent, etc. After 14 different psychotherapists (some as "couples" counseling) over 13 years, with tons of self reflection, journaling, praying, hoping, imagining ... I'm still in the same place, dreaming (literally) of being in a wholesome, rewarding, loving, kind, intimate, relationship. But doesn't seem like I have budged an inch. Same place. Same woman. Same life. Still can't imagine taking a step away. Tired of the suicidal thoughts, though i never think i would do it. I just really want to stop feeling as I do but not by ending my life. Oh well. Relatively hopeless over here. No idea where else to turn to. Any suggestions or guidance from anyone would be appreciated.

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Struggling with love, I hear you, and I believe you will find more joy in your relationship with yourself as you explore these truths, this honesty. I'm reminded of the priceless play about a son who helps his mother with all the brilliant and beautiful things in life worth living for, that touched me for personal reasons, called "Every Brilliant Thing" by Duncan Macmillan, and the dad answering when the son asks why we can't know everything: "Because there's only so much anyone can know ... because then there would be no mystery, no curiosity, no creativity, no conversation, no discovery. Nothing would be new and we'd have no need to use our imaginations and imaginations are what make our life bearable."

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Thank you for writing this post, Heather. Can you write a post for people on the other end, who might be emotionally abusive? I fear that I have those tendencies... Depending on the relationship, I am either the abused or the abuser, I feel. Thank you so much for opening my eyes... I didn't realize where my behaviours were coming from. I know I'm a bad person but I'm trying hard to improve.

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Well, I'd start by saying that if relationships make you feel panicked and out of control, you need to pay close attention to that and address it with a therapist if you can. You might experience yourself as BAD simply because you're in a constant state of agitation and confusion. I can't overstate how hard that is on a person, or how quickly the bad dynamics clear up in some cases, once your physical state is observed and addressed.

So many of our problems come from feeling like we're never get our needs met, or that we can't trust anyone. So noticing how these beliefs and this shame manifest themselves in your physical sensations is a good first step. Even if you truly are emotionally abusive, you still need to be gentle and kind to yourself on the path to understanding your triggers and your feedback loops and the queasiness you feel when you're afraid of other people or afraid of love / closeness. A good therapist will walk you through these sensations and also discuss the reasons why you made such extreme negative associations around intimacy.

Engaging with someone smart on this front is BEYOND worth the cost, and many therapists will give you a lower rate if you're struggling. It's hard to commit to looking at your own problems regularly, of course. But it can change how you view yourself and the world so radically. Just know that regardless of what comes next, the kinder and more accepting you are toward yourself, every day, the healthier your relationships will become. It really is about forgiving yourself and saying I AM LOVABLE. I DESERVE GOOD THINGS. Living in that space is so important, even when you know you're fucking up!

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Thank you so much, Heather. This means a whole lot to me 🫶

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You continue to write the things I need to hear at the moment I need to hear them. My last partner told me he couldn’t love me enough to make me love myself. The audacity and cruelty of that statement annoyed the shit out of me. Aside from the beginning of us which felt magical the whole thing hurt, thank you for reminding me which bits of it were me and which really weren’t.

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Some people can't handle intimacy, so they start to feel like there's something terrifying and chaotic happening when you're just... telling them the truth, or crying for a very good reason. Even though the whole point of a close romantic relationship is to show your true self to another person, many humans cannot deal with vulnerability or honesty. Many men in particular think it's extreme or exotic to simply express insecurities or notice them. The basics of human interaction are essentially lost on them. If you doubt me, go watch Love Island UK! The women are often very direct and calm and they state their needs clearly. And the men.... ohhh, the men. They are confused. Not all of them! But many. God I love that terrible show.

To set aside the abusers and just address incompatibility, you can start to tell it's a real mismatch when the other person treats your basic human desires or your occasional self-doubts as something that needs to be fixed. A story forms around how you're 'down on yourself' or you're too negative about things when you're merely processing the ups and downs of your day. And look, the more this stigmatization occurs, the easier it is to ACTUALLY FEEL LIKE YOU'RE LOSING IT! Because why be in a relationship at all if you can't show your emotions to that person?

Let me also add that IT IS HARD FOR ALL HUMANS TO LOVE THEMSELVES. This is one of the most essential and common psychological struggles out there. People who are becoming self-aware are engaged in the process of NOTICING how many barriers to self-love they have. Voicing these barriers is healthy!

When the partner who is humbly looking at the truth of how they are is pathologized while the partner who reduces everything to "why think about this at all?" is valorized, that's a problem. Sadly, it's a *common* problem. Self-awareness is misread as weakness all the time. And when you live in a culture that sees self-awareness that way, guess what? It's easy to walk around feeling like a broken alien, when in fact you are simply someone who is smart and sensitive and fully committed to your own growth.

When someone starts telling you what you can't do, or predicting what you'll never manage to do? That's shame and insecurity talking. They're so afraid that they're incapable of loving and supporting another flawed human that they have to tell the story that you'll never be okay anywhere, with anyone. You can never take words like that seriously, because they're a projection.

Everyone alive is working on loving themselves more. It's a lifelong effort. It's not that easy. But honestly, in spite of his claims, your ex appears to be struggling with that task more than you ever will.

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I’m printing this out and pinning it to my wall. Thank you SO much for this kind and thoughtful reply, even reading it I feel stronger.

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Thank you as always for following the long arc of my psyche which seems only to bend toward profound loneliness. I listen to their words and I believe them, but the men I love leave me hollowed out and like a fool. I sift for green flags in the litter of yellow ones and I guess I’m just red/green color blind. “But he has XYZ GOOD QUALITY.” As long as I am coming from a place of scarcity I will cling to any green flag and try and make it enough.

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Thank you for this. I developed a friendship in 2020 that got super intense and for a while brought me a lot of joy, but after a year or so I started noticing the ways my friend put me on edge all the time. I know she has trauma and was just trying to feel safe, but it manifested in her implying that if I didn’t show her total devotion and attention on the level you might expect from a spouse, I had failed her deeply and needed to atone in order to re-earn her trust. She often didn’t know how to be vulnerable enough to tell me what had upset her in the moment, so she stewed about things secretly for months, which made me constantly paranoid. Nothing was ever her fault. When we tried to talk about it, it didn’t help. My mistake was that instead of just ending it, I made increasingly extravagant pronouncements of my commitment to her, which I hoped would earn back her trust and fix everything. But they didn’t, and as I found myself less and less interested in this friendship, I felt like a huge asshole for having said one thing and feeling another. We eventually drifted apart and I have a bunch of other healthy friendships now but this one still bothers me because I worry I am the person she thinks I am. I don’t think I am, though!

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I had a very similar friendship once — where I initially tried the same strategies you tried! — except instead of cutting her off, I had to explicitly write and say "I can't give you what you want from me". It ate at me for a long time, but (almost completely) doesn't anymore. What helped me was realizing that the key is just *allowing* her to think I am the person she thinks I am. Accepting that I can't control this. And finding peace with it, integrating the horrible way that makes me feel.

Part of this is understanding that her thinking those things about me makes me feel horrible because on some level I worry I *AM* a terrible monster. If I thought she thinks I'm the kind of person who, I dunno, loves playing golf or who is really obsessive about cleanliness, it wouldn't wound me because those things are just so obviously not true. It's wounding because I worry she's right. Accepting this is rough!! But it's a path forward all the same. I don't believe you're the person she thinks you are. It's not reasonable to expect that much from even a best friendship. It's ok that you weren't up for that. It's ok that you let her drift. You're not a bad person because of it. xo

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It's extremely jarring to deal with friends who, instead of trying to sort your conflicts or compare expectations, resort to sweeping insults or insist on remaining blameless. This kind of courtroom debate to see who's right is so pervasive in our culture. And stress makes many of us use that kind of language even when it's our intention to respect each other and listen with an open heart to each other's needs. And look, even language like "it's not reasonable to expect that much" -- which you said in support of another commenter, and I endorse 100% in that context, to be clear -- presupposes an objective standard of what it is and isn't reasonable to expect. And while in our culture, it's absolutely true that best friendships are defined very differently than, say, marriage, I want to make a strong case for each of us becoming the architects of each of our relationships.

Two people decide on the shape and tone of their relationship together. The ability to talk through conflicts and differences in expectations openly and honestly WITHOUT stigmatizing the other person for what they want (like your friend did) is incredibly important because it makes it possible to define the friendship collaboratively. I would argue that wanting loose and flexible expectations in a friendship and wanting the closeness of a spouse are both perfectly legitimate choices. It's all about openness and clarity. If someone amazing wants a spouse-like BFF and you're crystal clear that this is impossible and their response, instead of freezing you out or manipulating you into ramping up your love, is to accept your boundaries and love you for being so direct? That's a friendship that's working. Together you can work out a design that accommodates each of your needs as well as possible.

One problem with your friend painting a merciless portrait of you as a complete monster is that it gets you on the defense, so in order to just feel baseline good, okay, NOT A MONSTER, you feel like you HAVE to assert that what this friend wants is unreasonable. I mean, look, most people would agree that it's unreasonable. But I think we all feel so much lighter and more free when we say to each other "nothing is unreasonable, you can ask for anything you want, I'm just going to tell you very directly what I can and can't do."

I love friendships that can exist on that level. Because it's so supportive of never ever feeling like a monster for being who you are. In the comment above yours, re: the friend who wanted a spouse BFF, imagine for a moment that she had been calm and clear and accepting and said "Look, I'm going to love you even if you can't always be on call to me, so relax and live your life, I'm just telling you my romantic vision of a BFF because it makes me feel less alone. Maybe every now and then you'll want what I want and we'll meet in that place, and other times I can go with the flow without making you wrong for being who you are." That's the path to a lasting friendship, and it arises from a complete lack of shame and lack of stigmatizing (a byproduct of shame) by both parties.

I know it's creepy to say this but close friendships are like sex: the more you can give voice to what you want and say no to what you don't want without bringing anyone's defenses or ego or fears or anxieties into it, the better it works. Now obviously no one fucking talks it out that much. Even direct honest talk that's not stigmatizing can scare a lot of people off, because they assume you'll become a nightmare friend eventually -- and with good reason! lol omg imagine telling your new friend "Let's talk this out, it's just like sex, we just need to be honest!" Ha ha hahaha.

But look, I go there (and everywhere else, woohoo) in Ask Polly because most of us need a place to think through the PRINCIPLES that keep us in the right mindset around love and communication during conflict. When we're able to get freaky and move things around and talk through abstracts here in a smart way, it helps us ALL to realize that we all have choices, we don't have to hide who we are or what we want. Even though this culture and our courtroom style of resolving trouble leaves so many of us feeling like monsters for every reason under the sun, the truth is that love and open talk makes most conflicts utterly surmountable. And once everyone is clear that no one will turn on them, no one will make them wrong for needing what they need or saying no to what they can't do, no one will say "it should be this way" or "how you are is fucked" as long as it's clear that everyone is showing up and telling the truth, a deeper kind of love and affection and trust becomes possible.

I say that knowing that many will be thinking OH JESUS, NO THANK YOU! Lots of people don't want that much discussion in their friendships. And as with all things, the beginnings of relationships are always tentative by necessity, really. No matter what you want, it's hard to be throwing that on the table straight out of the gate. But no matter what design of friendship or love or partnership you want, you should feel empowered to believe in it, ask for it, and stand up for your desires without apology. You should also feel confident and strong and lovable enough that you're resist the urge to make someone else BAD or SICK just for wanting a different design.

Shit talking is fine. Telling a close friend that you think another friend is a PIECE OF FUCKING WORK is actually fine. But what makes a friend a piece of fucking work? An inability to make space for another flawed human with their own unique needs and desires. So it's important for your heart and your fragile desires that you respect other people's unique desires, even when they conflict with yours. When we shame other people's weird desires, we shame ourselves and hurt ourselves and limit our own horizons.

We all do it, we are all imperfect, and shame rules our entire culture in so many ways. But it's good to have a firm grasp on your private principles around these things, because the more you understand them, the less susceptible you become to other people's insults and shame. OK PHEW I BROUGHT IT BACK AROUND!

Serious thanks for giving me an excuse to explore this idea. Love both of these comments and grateful to you both for being here and being honest about your experiences.

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Thank you both!! As Heather says I have since realized that what my friend wanted was reasonable to want, but it’s not what works for me. And because my friend was rarely honest about how she was feeling, I didn’t trust her to tell me if she could truly accept my needs and work with them. I think she would have said yes and meant no. But it was an opportunity to examine the friendships I have that do work and look for more people like that.

And re: the above comment, you’re totally right about why it bothers me. It turns out I have this same dynamic with my mom and the “am I a monster for not wanting to be so close?” feeling is deeply ingrained. Something to work on in therapy!

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Wow. So simple and yet so profound. I did mental gymnastics for so many years, straining to figure things out. When the feelings were always loud and clear.

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Heather, I'm pretty sure I'm both kinds of people you describe in this piece. I'm the kind person that once you know me, can be an irritant, a piece of grit you need to take you shoe off for and dump. And, I'm the kind of person who's prickly and says pointy things, but you keep as a friend because I can bring peace and calm to difficult things. I'm also pretty sure we all are like this. The best I've found to do is, be honest about it, and keep showing up. I don't care how good you think you are, you don't get a free pass, some exceptions for children.

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This is the most succinct description of this I have ever read. I’m this could save lives, I don’t think I’m exaggerating.

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This was so good it made me cry.

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“So you stop asking for things. You demand more and more from yourself. You bend until you’re exhausted. And often, you feel less and less love for them, or more and more sick about the state of your life, but you tell yourself that this is yet another embodiment of how much work you have to do on yourself, in order to become more lovable.”

IT ME.

I try not to do this and yet every time, here I am again, trapped in a loop I can’t see a way out of.

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I’ve been sitting here for days trying to figure out how to navigate a friendship group I have been struggling with for years because of how bad it most often makes me feel. Currently, I’m in the doghouse because I expressed that something they did hurt me. And I’ve been wavering between “is it my inability to form healthy relationships, my insecurities, or their toxicity/issues that has brought us here?” I haven’t slept for days over it. Then I open my email and see this post. And what I do know is that I feel overwhelmingly bad in this relationship. What I do know is that I feel like I have given up pieces of myself, my thoughts, and my feelings to create comfort for everyone but myself. I want to take up space. I want to flail. I want to feel heard. And I want to do all those things while still being loved, and I cannot do that in this relationship. I want more, regardless of who is wrong or why or what - quite simply, I want more. Thank you for giving me the words to see that.

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Oh Liz I have purged shitty friend groups three times and it’s awful but so worth it! You might think, but do what, it’s not like any of them are as close as a romantic partner. But if anything they should be closer, better than a romantic partner because they’re there when the romance goes south, they’re meant to be the found family. I’m so sorry! DTMFA💔

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Thank you Polly, this means so much to me.

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Sep 4, 2023
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Well done for making that brave move!!!!

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Sep 4, 2023
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It takes as long as it takes. Also sending you love.

Cowgirl212

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a few years better than never! you did it!!!! 💖

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