As someone who has embraced being “exactly the right kind of fucked up to do this” let me tell you: I’ve treated dating apps as an experiment for the past…6, 7, maybe 8 years. To the point of literally having spreadsheets of every date, downloading & analyzing the data from every conversation, testing opening lines, making infographics about which app has the best swipe-to-date conversion, etc. I don’t disagree with any of the advice in this response but I can provide some real-world numbers to set your standards to, because (at least for me) it makes the apps better when you have some sort of basis for these things…
First, fuck Bumble. I know, I know… it seems like the most feminist of the apps, but the men who use it only switch over to it after they’re tired of women not responding to their messages and therefore they decide not to reply. Bumble has the lowest match-to-conversation rate of any app I’ve tried.
Second, expect to swipe left on 90% of people and maybe half of the 10% of the people you swipe right on will also swipe right with you. So for every 100, you’ll match with 5. Imagine going into a bar packed with people. How many will you want to go on a date with? That’s just statistics.
Third - and this is the most important - I’ve downloaded years’ worth of conversations and the biggest thing I learned is that **30 messages** (combined) is the ideal number before going on/asking for a date. Fewer than that, you don’t really know if you vibe. More than that, one of you is probably not actually interested in meeting up.
(I have more tips, but the fire alarm just started going off in my apartment building so I guess I should evacuate 🙄)
Look, I am also close to 30 (27 3/4) and I have also been single for years, and I also used to dread going on the apps. Why? Because they take this storybook idea of how you're "supposed" to meet the person you love and turn it into a rote, robotic, algorithm-based nightmare. And all the things this person says are true: It *is* hard to figure out someone's vibe through an app, it *is* hard to go through page after page of the same photos and answers, it *does* feel endless and pointless and often soul-sucking. But it feels even worse when you do all that from the point of view that you're looking for the love of your life. It's too much pressure! It's too hopeless! So here's what I'll say, just from my own experiences:
Dating through apps is just an adventure of your own choosing. It is one of the best ways to explore a city, and humanity in general. Have the apps led me to the love of my life? Obviously not! But I've been to a dozen awesome restaurants and bars that I would never have heard of before. I've explored new neighborhoods, and heard about peoples' lives that are wildly different from my own. I've gone on a date with a self-obsessed art dealer and an incredibly sweet musician and a very passionate human rights lawyer and a very boring architect. I learned things, whether they were things I was interested in or not! People will recommend books or movies or hobbies or places to you, they will tell you good jokes or at least show you a point of view you've never seen before. And once in a while, one of them (usually the one you never expected) will magically light a spark in you, and for a few weeks you'll walk around feeling glowy and hot and excited and alive. And that person may not end up being the love of your life—they probably *won't* actually. But you'll get out of this space of feeling like no one will ever get you. You'll get out of this space of feeling like you're unlovable. You are!
When you log into the apps, you can't look for the profile that looks like *the love of your life.* Again, it's just too much pressure. None of us expect a profile to portray how good a person smells, or the gorgeous timbre of their laugh, or their perfectly snarky sense of humor that makes you cackle like a deranged witch. They're a badly drawn finger painting of a single star—they're not meant to illustrate the whole galaxy. Likewise, you need to look for small things that might indicate someone is cool. Does a guy have a mildly funny or snarky thing in his profile that you smiled at? Swipe right! Does he have a job you think is pretty cool? Swipe! Is he just fuckin hot? Swipe right! Who cares! Put something a little weird in your profile, and watch how many guys like it. Your fellow weirdos are out there, and they are looking for the smoke signal of a fellow weirdo!
And lastly, just take a deep breath and remember that you're in control here. Does opening an app feel like Hell? Then there is no need to open it! I have deleted and re-downloaded the apps so many times. I've binged and then burned out. And then one day I feel a little frisky, and I start over again. But only when I'm in a place where I feel ready for an adventure.
I am sending you so much love and empathy. It's a roller coaster. But once you realize that the flying and the falling are part of the ride and not the end of the world, roller coasters can be pretty fucking fun (:
Everything Stacey said times 100. After divorcing (married 15 years with 2 children) I found the world of dating had completely changed! So in my mid 40's I had to quickly adapt to "online dating". Think Tender (yikes I had no idea what that was in the beginning so I deleted it in short order!), Bumble, Match. I don't know if I am just an extremely lucky person, but the vast majority of guys I ended up meeting turned out to be pretty decent people. Yes there were a few dates here and there that went sideways, but I didn't take it personally and I kept prodding along thinking "I am just here to have fun & meet some interesting people". However, early on I learned a very critical thing. Actually SET UP A MEETING with the dude ( I never called it a date...ya know because of the flinchy men thing). Do not waste your time texting or talking with someone for more than about a week. If they are not responding quickly enough, they are not interested. If they are responding, a week should do it. It is just too much work (particularly if you are communicating with 3-4 guys at the same time). After some initial texting to make sure he's not a complete dick (you can usually detect this right away) and you think they "could" be interesting, make a move and ask them if they want to meet for a quick drink or coffee. You will know after that encounter if you would like to see them again. There is NO WAY you will know if you are truly interested and attracted to a person until you meet them. I have met up with seriously attractive guys that were complete douche bags in person. I have met up with average looking guys that I thought, well even if we don't hit it off, maybe we can be friends. I ended up in a 1.5 yr relationship with one of these...he was a great guy. If you are serious about meeting and finding someone, you will hate this part, but it will turn into a part time job. It is worth it. After a few years and 3 long relationships later (all met on dating apps) I met my person on Match. We have been together for over 2 years now and I can honestly say he is the love of my life. He says the same about me. I literally cringe at the thought of never meeting him and the chances of that happening would have been near ZERO if I had not used a dating app. Good luck to you! I know it feels like it will never happen, but give people a chance, put in the work, and SET UP MEETINGS ASAP!!
"There are entire communities of gay men who operate this way and they’re very happy together and honestly, these are some of the only good communities on the face of the planet as far as I’m concerned. The tragedy here is that you, like me, are a straight woman living in a boring sexist heterosexual world where people are avoidant and get flinchy over small things because they over-interpret your allergies as major character flaws. "
OMG THIS...I have often had similar feelings but could never have expressed it so well. Well done! I just started online dating and have had the exact same thoughts about it. It makes my skin crawl. I have zero problems connecting with people IRL but somehow online I just can't do it. I can't engage and also everyone seems so generic and boring. It's the old Groucho Marx - I don't want to be a member of a club that would have me as a member...I say fuck online dating and just go out! Find places where people congregate and get flirty.
'Straight men are jumpy little bitches. There is nothing they like less than an intense woman who looks poised to overinvest in them. That’s just a fact to carry around in your hip pocket.' Polly: you are the best.
This is an interesting one. I'd like to present a different side. As a straight woman who has been on a LOT of dates from dating apps, I would recommend against them. I've had more bad experiences than good. I've dealt with a lot of really shitty men - from 'player' kind of shitty, to homophobic or racist kind of shitty, to sexual predator kind of bad. I'm a really kind and open person who gets on really well with most people, especially during initial texting conversations, so a few years ago I ended up taking the plunge and meeting a lot of people in real life. The problem was that it was impossible to tell whether someone was a genuine person, faking being a genuine person or outright dangerous. I always took all the normal precautions and met in public places, told people where I would be, etc. I am someone who is normally very good at picking up on social cues. On dating apps, especially as a female dating men, it's often not possible to tell if someone is a safe person. So I would personally recommend against meeting 'all the people'. These days, I would only meet someone on a dating app once I'd got to know them very well first. And definitely don't give out your phone number until you've met the person. I've had to change my number due to being stalked by someone I only talked to once for a few hours.
When I had a chat to her recently, my psychologist told me there are a lot of predators on these apps. She has very recently had quite a number of clients who have had traumatic experiences from meeting people who appeared completely normal, even well into the date. These experiences are not as rare as we all like to believe.
Not just for safety reasons, I've actually stopped using the apps because I find the sexism rampant and it severely affects my mental health. Using dating apps destroys my faith in men. I would rather hold out some hope. I've had a few relationships and friendships from dating apps, but none of them have been worth the awful bits. I find that the people I meet in real life (through hobbies, friends and such) are more genuine as well as more sustainable.
I can't do the apps because it takes so long to even tease out if they're an ok (safe) person worth meeting, but IRL I learn more within 20 seconds of meeting than I got from a week of messaging and profile study. And it sucks so much to just *know* 20 seconds after meeting them whether I even want to keep talking (and when it's 50/50 either way, that turns into lots of pointless coffees). So I skip the apps and have been trying every speed-dating-like event that I can find. My favorites are the ones that are little break-out groups that change with every question that make it easier to relax than the one-on-one classic speed dating format. After every event I've gone out with at least a couple people that I *want* to go out with. IRL stuff is soooo much better for my mental health than the apps. Just not having to do the soul-draining swiping and the creepy dms lets me relax and enjoy myself so much more.
I feel this one. I'm 29 and have had zero luck on the dating apps while almost all of my friends in marriages/relationships have met their partner on an app. I've gone of some dates, good ones and ok ones but nothing sticks. I get matches but rarely ever a response. The kind of messages and conversations I get from men on these apps have made it probably the most devaluing experience of my life. There must just be something about ~me~ that provokes men to ask me "what my kinks are" or if I'm "down to just get fucked" within only a couple of messages back and forth. I've tailored my profile to seem the least "slutty" possible while still seeming like a fun flirty girl (I've even had my guy friend's check!!!) so I'm confused as to why I can't get any basic human decency out of anyone. Don't get me wrong, I'm no prude and I'm down for a good time but geez....can we at least meet in person first? I'm not a fan of super casual sex but that doesn't make me a nun. I'm smart and successful. I make my own money and have great friends. I don't think I'm that bad to look at. I have my own fulfilling life but it's getting old being the 3rd or 5th wheel. I value my independence but I also want a partner. I don't mind going on lots of dates to get there but I can't even get to the date part! I'm a great date (I know this lol) but I just don't come across anybody worthy to date? I know that's not true so maybe it's just me....I love men and have had great relationships with them so I don't want this to keep crushing my spirit. I need a male springboard in my life!
BTW, Polly I love your column and have read your work for almost 10 years. I have a Google doc of chunks of your columns that I read whenever I need to be brought back down to earth. My mom even gave me one of your books without knowing I already followed your column.
Polly, I want to preface this with lots of love for your work. You are obviously immensely talented and your work has literally gotten me through hard times. I really connect with it. However, sometimes your life advice seems like a moving target. In the past I read a response from you for a letter titled "I hate dating apps so much". You said, "The bottom line is, if you hate dating apps, you’re unlikely to find love through a dating app."
And as someone who also hates dating apps, I took solace in that response. Why is the tone of this one so different?
I get that opinions can change over time, but I think your faithful readers are taking a lot of what you say to heart, so it's confusing and disconcerting (for me at least).
Sorry for this comment in advance. I promise I've also left lots and lots of positive feedback for you too.
I love this advice. I did what Polly suggested. Turned the whole dating thing into a memoir and podcast. The art that resulted was WAY more fun than the dates, FYI.
I'm an introvert who LOVES comfy pants. (I'm on my couch in them right now). That said, I did the whole app thing for a year. Bumble, no! Tinder, fun! OkCupid, odd!
In order to date on the apps, I had to dial down my expectations VERY far. It became a kind of social experiment. I made a pact with myself in 2019 to go on fifty dates - made it to fifty-one.
Three relationships came from it. None successful, but it ended up being more about self-exploration than finding 'the one.'
I'm WAAAAY older than you LW, and I still hold out hope. That said I've been off the apps since January 2020 (met a guy - didn't work out and pandemic). I plan to spend the summer clearing out whatever (emotional) cobwebs I need to then I'll try them again come fall.
But the advice from Polly and the commenters is SO true. I think these flinchy and equivocal guys would text forever. REFUSE! Set up a time to meet. Meet them. Determine if you'd ever want to spend more than an hour with them. Rinse and repeat.
Most of the guys I met are nice enough. Some sweet, but not my type. Some really creepy souls, but they were nothing if not interesting. A few married guys...because some guys do not stop dating after saying, 'I Do.'
Maybe it's my age, but I think you have to be good with the emotional unavailability of most of them. But that's okay. I too got to hang out in places I'd never go. Meet people I never would. Hear stories from people I'd never come across in my own social circle of long-marrieds in L.A.
Vulnerability is key. That's the hard part. You'll never see most of these people again, though, so vulnerable is OK!
Pro tip. The apps can be geographical. Maybe don't date too close to your front door.
I am reading through the comments and unsure if someone has already said something along these lines, but my impression upon reading the letter is that the LW is not going on enough in-person dates. I agree with Polly's advice whole-heartedly, but wanted to add: try faster to meet the guys in-person. If they don't want to, that tells you something! As someone who hated the inauthenticity of the apps but then kept trying for YEARS despite finding no serious relationships, I am now partnered to a Bumble guy. My sister (a confirmed introvert) found her BF on Bumble too. And my mom's is from Match. So I agree that one solution is to quit them, but in some ways they are the only way to meet people in this effed-up world.
I guess I'm trying to establish my authority to give advice when I really don't have much :), but just to say I feel like online profiles/chatting just never gave me much of an idea of what someone was really like, let alone our chemistry. So if you can look at that part as the stuff Polly says you have to do just to play the game, and get ASAP to point B (I like some of the comments below on how to handle the chat, too, like jumping in as if you're already friends, much more interesting, no chatting forever and ever) where you can meet and see if you vibe with the person at all. I went on a million first dates, and like <30 second dates over the years. Yes, it's exhausting. I would psych myself up by saying, I'm going out for a drink! With someone I'll have lots to talk to about, since I've never met them!
I have so been where you are, and I know how much it sucks. I'm an old, so my pre-app nemeses were Match.com and their various ilk. I found that even on the rare occasions when I managed to find someone who seemed interesting and non-sheep-like, it was still tough to get the time investment right. I'd waste tons of time laying groundwork (texting probably would have made this much easier) to meet someone I almost always knew was a hard "nope" two seconds after arrival. Or, on one memorable date, when we had spent *way* too much time talking before we met in person, I wound up in bed with a guy who was creepily both a total fucking stranger and someone I (erroneously) felt like I knew intimately (through a ridiculously extended email exchange... and a couple of 2-hour phone calls -- a thing I am now both nostalgic for and horrified to recall existed). I was so freaked out afterward, I wound up deleting my profile and swearing off the platform forever.
All this to say that the thing I recommend most highly (assuming it still exists) -- and I know this will sound nuts to a fellow introvert, but bear with me -- speed dating. I know, *I know*, but seriously: You meet 30 guys in 90 minutes. It's insanely efficient, and if you go in with the right mindset, it can be borderline-to-actually fun. Or, fine, at least kind of entertaining. The idea of approaching it as a science experiment is exactly right. Detach yourself from worrying about how you're coming off and look at it as you interviewing someone for the short-term job of amusing you for a couple months.
Come up with 3-5 non-mundane questions -- manic genius and/or profound insight isn't necessary, just avoid the stultifying standards (almost all the dudes I talked to froze up and threw out desperate zzz-inducers about work, free time, family, blah blah blah). I think I asked about best vacation, most embarrassing school memory, favorite thing to doodle -- probably all the shitty, idiotic prompts you hate on the apps -- but when they have to answer them in person on the spot, it's much more useful. What they say usually doesn't matter as much as whether they seem to get you or smile at your questions or stare at you in horror like you're a whackjob. And if they do the last one, just imagine the scientist in your head nodding while taking notes and muttering, "interesting... #17 gives every indication of being a major crapweasel...NEXT!"
As others have said, certainly better than I'm managing, try to make it fun and interesting for you while looking at the dude across from you as a potentially fascinating (but ultimately eminently replaceable) forest-dwelling creature of a species you happen to be studying for the good of humanity. There's a ton of good advice here, and Polly is right on -- it's fantastic to share your life with a fellow weirdo, but you have to be in a place where you love your weird enough to be able to pull it out and show it off a little before the right weirdo will recognize you and follow you home panting. You'll get there eventually, I promise. We're all rooting for you and sending you deliciously-fruity-yet-bracing virtual cocktails of solidarity.
I clicked this link SO FAST because I feel like I could have written this letter a couple of years ago. I was very eager to read the response, but now I'm just... confused.
Why is so much of the advice related to the LW changing her attitude that she's fucked up/unworthy? She says that she feels alienated by her circumstances, not that she doesn't like who she is as a person. Why is the assumption that she's faulting herself for not being like the average dating app user?
And how can someone simply decide that something soul crushing is not soul crushing? 99% of the advice given by most people is some variation of "change your outlook." Which makes sense, in a way, because it's the only thing that's really in the LW's control here. But, practically speaking, I'm not sure how anyone really follows that advice. How does anyone choose enjoy a romance with the moon? I don't think I even know what that means. And, maybe more to the point, how can a moon romance be genuinely satisfying when someone wants a real connection?
I see "It’s not as lonely as you think." and I think... yes it is. What am I missing?
Oops posted before I was done, but I love the idea of exploring what you hate about the apps! Don't give up on them yet, we can try to take the broken parts of our society and make them work for us. Wishing you best of luck!!
As someone who has embraced being “exactly the right kind of fucked up to do this” let me tell you: I’ve treated dating apps as an experiment for the past…6, 7, maybe 8 years. To the point of literally having spreadsheets of every date, downloading & analyzing the data from every conversation, testing opening lines, making infographics about which app has the best swipe-to-date conversion, etc. I don’t disagree with any of the advice in this response but I can provide some real-world numbers to set your standards to, because (at least for me) it makes the apps better when you have some sort of basis for these things…
First, fuck Bumble. I know, I know… it seems like the most feminist of the apps, but the men who use it only switch over to it after they’re tired of women not responding to their messages and therefore they decide not to reply. Bumble has the lowest match-to-conversation rate of any app I’ve tried.
Second, expect to swipe left on 90% of people and maybe half of the 10% of the people you swipe right on will also swipe right with you. So for every 100, you’ll match with 5. Imagine going into a bar packed with people. How many will you want to go on a date with? That’s just statistics.
Third - and this is the most important - I’ve downloaded years’ worth of conversations and the biggest thing I learned is that **30 messages** (combined) is the ideal number before going on/asking for a date. Fewer than that, you don’t really know if you vibe. More than that, one of you is probably not actually interested in meeting up.
(I have more tips, but the fire alarm just started going off in my apartment building so I guess I should evacuate 🙄)
Look, I am also close to 30 (27 3/4) and I have also been single for years, and I also used to dread going on the apps. Why? Because they take this storybook idea of how you're "supposed" to meet the person you love and turn it into a rote, robotic, algorithm-based nightmare. And all the things this person says are true: It *is* hard to figure out someone's vibe through an app, it *is* hard to go through page after page of the same photos and answers, it *does* feel endless and pointless and often soul-sucking. But it feels even worse when you do all that from the point of view that you're looking for the love of your life. It's too much pressure! It's too hopeless! So here's what I'll say, just from my own experiences:
Dating through apps is just an adventure of your own choosing. It is one of the best ways to explore a city, and humanity in general. Have the apps led me to the love of my life? Obviously not! But I've been to a dozen awesome restaurants and bars that I would never have heard of before. I've explored new neighborhoods, and heard about peoples' lives that are wildly different from my own. I've gone on a date with a self-obsessed art dealer and an incredibly sweet musician and a very passionate human rights lawyer and a very boring architect. I learned things, whether they were things I was interested in or not! People will recommend books or movies or hobbies or places to you, they will tell you good jokes or at least show you a point of view you've never seen before. And once in a while, one of them (usually the one you never expected) will magically light a spark in you, and for a few weeks you'll walk around feeling glowy and hot and excited and alive. And that person may not end up being the love of your life—they probably *won't* actually. But you'll get out of this space of feeling like no one will ever get you. You'll get out of this space of feeling like you're unlovable. You are!
When you log into the apps, you can't look for the profile that looks like *the love of your life.* Again, it's just too much pressure. None of us expect a profile to portray how good a person smells, or the gorgeous timbre of their laugh, or their perfectly snarky sense of humor that makes you cackle like a deranged witch. They're a badly drawn finger painting of a single star—they're not meant to illustrate the whole galaxy. Likewise, you need to look for small things that might indicate someone is cool. Does a guy have a mildly funny or snarky thing in his profile that you smiled at? Swipe right! Does he have a job you think is pretty cool? Swipe! Is he just fuckin hot? Swipe right! Who cares! Put something a little weird in your profile, and watch how many guys like it. Your fellow weirdos are out there, and they are looking for the smoke signal of a fellow weirdo!
And lastly, just take a deep breath and remember that you're in control here. Does opening an app feel like Hell? Then there is no need to open it! I have deleted and re-downloaded the apps so many times. I've binged and then burned out. And then one day I feel a little frisky, and I start over again. But only when I'm in a place where I feel ready for an adventure.
I am sending you so much love and empathy. It's a roller coaster. But once you realize that the flying and the falling are part of the ride and not the end of the world, roller coasters can be pretty fucking fun (:
Everything Stacey said times 100. After divorcing (married 15 years with 2 children) I found the world of dating had completely changed! So in my mid 40's I had to quickly adapt to "online dating". Think Tender (yikes I had no idea what that was in the beginning so I deleted it in short order!), Bumble, Match. I don't know if I am just an extremely lucky person, but the vast majority of guys I ended up meeting turned out to be pretty decent people. Yes there were a few dates here and there that went sideways, but I didn't take it personally and I kept prodding along thinking "I am just here to have fun & meet some interesting people". However, early on I learned a very critical thing. Actually SET UP A MEETING with the dude ( I never called it a date...ya know because of the flinchy men thing). Do not waste your time texting or talking with someone for more than about a week. If they are not responding quickly enough, they are not interested. If they are responding, a week should do it. It is just too much work (particularly if you are communicating with 3-4 guys at the same time). After some initial texting to make sure he's not a complete dick (you can usually detect this right away) and you think they "could" be interesting, make a move and ask them if they want to meet for a quick drink or coffee. You will know after that encounter if you would like to see them again. There is NO WAY you will know if you are truly interested and attracted to a person until you meet them. I have met up with seriously attractive guys that were complete douche bags in person. I have met up with average looking guys that I thought, well even if we don't hit it off, maybe we can be friends. I ended up in a 1.5 yr relationship with one of these...he was a great guy. If you are serious about meeting and finding someone, you will hate this part, but it will turn into a part time job. It is worth it. After a few years and 3 long relationships later (all met on dating apps) I met my person on Match. We have been together for over 2 years now and I can honestly say he is the love of my life. He says the same about me. I literally cringe at the thought of never meeting him and the chances of that happening would have been near ZERO if I had not used a dating app. Good luck to you! I know it feels like it will never happen, but give people a chance, put in the work, and SET UP MEETINGS ASAP!!
"There are entire communities of gay men who operate this way and they’re very happy together and honestly, these are some of the only good communities on the face of the planet as far as I’m concerned. The tragedy here is that you, like me, are a straight woman living in a boring sexist heterosexual world where people are avoidant and get flinchy over small things because they over-interpret your allergies as major character flaws. "
OMG THIS...I have often had similar feelings but could never have expressed it so well. Well done! I just started online dating and have had the exact same thoughts about it. It makes my skin crawl. I have zero problems connecting with people IRL but somehow online I just can't do it. I can't engage and also everyone seems so generic and boring. It's the old Groucho Marx - I don't want to be a member of a club that would have me as a member...I say fuck online dating and just go out! Find places where people congregate and get flirty.
'Straight men are jumpy little bitches. There is nothing they like less than an intense woman who looks poised to overinvest in them. That’s just a fact to carry around in your hip pocket.' Polly: you are the best.
This is an interesting one. I'd like to present a different side. As a straight woman who has been on a LOT of dates from dating apps, I would recommend against them. I've had more bad experiences than good. I've dealt with a lot of really shitty men - from 'player' kind of shitty, to homophobic or racist kind of shitty, to sexual predator kind of bad. I'm a really kind and open person who gets on really well with most people, especially during initial texting conversations, so a few years ago I ended up taking the plunge and meeting a lot of people in real life. The problem was that it was impossible to tell whether someone was a genuine person, faking being a genuine person or outright dangerous. I always took all the normal precautions and met in public places, told people where I would be, etc. I am someone who is normally very good at picking up on social cues. On dating apps, especially as a female dating men, it's often not possible to tell if someone is a safe person. So I would personally recommend against meeting 'all the people'. These days, I would only meet someone on a dating app once I'd got to know them very well first. And definitely don't give out your phone number until you've met the person. I've had to change my number due to being stalked by someone I only talked to once for a few hours.
When I had a chat to her recently, my psychologist told me there are a lot of predators on these apps. She has very recently had quite a number of clients who have had traumatic experiences from meeting people who appeared completely normal, even well into the date. These experiences are not as rare as we all like to believe.
Not just for safety reasons, I've actually stopped using the apps because I find the sexism rampant and it severely affects my mental health. Using dating apps destroys my faith in men. I would rather hold out some hope. I've had a few relationships and friendships from dating apps, but none of them have been worth the awful bits. I find that the people I meet in real life (through hobbies, friends and such) are more genuine as well as more sustainable.
Amazing as always, Heather! It's incredible how you manage to see the very soul of every single writer after reading only a few paragraphs from them.
LW, I'd also encourage you to read: https://askpolly.substack.com/p/my-cheating-boyfriend-kept-cheating
The themes about being vulnerable and hopeful here really have helped me and resonate with me. Good luck!!
I can't do the apps because it takes so long to even tease out if they're an ok (safe) person worth meeting, but IRL I learn more within 20 seconds of meeting than I got from a week of messaging and profile study. And it sucks so much to just *know* 20 seconds after meeting them whether I even want to keep talking (and when it's 50/50 either way, that turns into lots of pointless coffees). So I skip the apps and have been trying every speed-dating-like event that I can find. My favorites are the ones that are little break-out groups that change with every question that make it easier to relax than the one-on-one classic speed dating format. After every event I've gone out with at least a couple people that I *want* to go out with. IRL stuff is soooo much better for my mental health than the apps. Just not having to do the soul-draining swiping and the creepy dms lets me relax and enjoy myself so much more.
I feel this one. I'm 29 and have had zero luck on the dating apps while almost all of my friends in marriages/relationships have met their partner on an app. I've gone of some dates, good ones and ok ones but nothing sticks. I get matches but rarely ever a response. The kind of messages and conversations I get from men on these apps have made it probably the most devaluing experience of my life. There must just be something about ~me~ that provokes men to ask me "what my kinks are" or if I'm "down to just get fucked" within only a couple of messages back and forth. I've tailored my profile to seem the least "slutty" possible while still seeming like a fun flirty girl (I've even had my guy friend's check!!!) so I'm confused as to why I can't get any basic human decency out of anyone. Don't get me wrong, I'm no prude and I'm down for a good time but geez....can we at least meet in person first? I'm not a fan of super casual sex but that doesn't make me a nun. I'm smart and successful. I make my own money and have great friends. I don't think I'm that bad to look at. I have my own fulfilling life but it's getting old being the 3rd or 5th wheel. I value my independence but I also want a partner. I don't mind going on lots of dates to get there but I can't even get to the date part! I'm a great date (I know this lol) but I just don't come across anybody worthy to date? I know that's not true so maybe it's just me....I love men and have had great relationships with them so I don't want this to keep crushing my spirit. I need a male springboard in my life!
BTW, Polly I love your column and have read your work for almost 10 years. I have a Google doc of chunks of your columns that I read whenever I need to be brought back down to earth. My mom even gave me one of your books without knowing I already followed your column.
Polly, I want to preface this with lots of love for your work. You are obviously immensely talented and your work has literally gotten me through hard times. I really connect with it. However, sometimes your life advice seems like a moving target. In the past I read a response from you for a letter titled "I hate dating apps so much". You said, "The bottom line is, if you hate dating apps, you’re unlikely to find love through a dating app."
And as someone who also hates dating apps, I took solace in that response. Why is the tone of this one so different?
I get that opinions can change over time, but I think your faithful readers are taking a lot of what you say to heart, so it's confusing and disconcerting (for me at least).
Sorry for this comment in advance. I promise I've also left lots and lots of positive feedback for you too.
I love this advice. I did what Polly suggested. Turned the whole dating thing into a memoir and podcast. The art that resulted was WAY more fun than the dates, FYI.
I'm an introvert who LOVES comfy pants. (I'm on my couch in them right now). That said, I did the whole app thing for a year. Bumble, no! Tinder, fun! OkCupid, odd!
In order to date on the apps, I had to dial down my expectations VERY far. It became a kind of social experiment. I made a pact with myself in 2019 to go on fifty dates - made it to fifty-one.
Three relationships came from it. None successful, but it ended up being more about self-exploration than finding 'the one.'
I'm WAAAAY older than you LW, and I still hold out hope. That said I've been off the apps since January 2020 (met a guy - didn't work out and pandemic). I plan to spend the summer clearing out whatever (emotional) cobwebs I need to then I'll try them again come fall.
But the advice from Polly and the commenters is SO true. I think these flinchy and equivocal guys would text forever. REFUSE! Set up a time to meet. Meet them. Determine if you'd ever want to spend more than an hour with them. Rinse and repeat.
Most of the guys I met are nice enough. Some sweet, but not my type. Some really creepy souls, but they were nothing if not interesting. A few married guys...because some guys do not stop dating after saying, 'I Do.'
Maybe it's my age, but I think you have to be good with the emotional unavailability of most of them. But that's okay. I too got to hang out in places I'd never go. Meet people I never would. Hear stories from people I'd never come across in my own social circle of long-marrieds in L.A.
Vulnerability is key. That's the hard part. You'll never see most of these people again, though, so vulnerable is OK!
Pro tip. The apps can be geographical. Maybe don't date too close to your front door.
I am reading through the comments and unsure if someone has already said something along these lines, but my impression upon reading the letter is that the LW is not going on enough in-person dates. I agree with Polly's advice whole-heartedly, but wanted to add: try faster to meet the guys in-person. If they don't want to, that tells you something! As someone who hated the inauthenticity of the apps but then kept trying for YEARS despite finding no serious relationships, I am now partnered to a Bumble guy. My sister (a confirmed introvert) found her BF on Bumble too. And my mom's is from Match. So I agree that one solution is to quit them, but in some ways they are the only way to meet people in this effed-up world.
I guess I'm trying to establish my authority to give advice when I really don't have much :), but just to say I feel like online profiles/chatting just never gave me much of an idea of what someone was really like, let alone our chemistry. So if you can look at that part as the stuff Polly says you have to do just to play the game, and get ASAP to point B (I like some of the comments below on how to handle the chat, too, like jumping in as if you're already friends, much more interesting, no chatting forever and ever) where you can meet and see if you vibe with the person at all. I went on a million first dates, and like <30 second dates over the years. Yes, it's exhausting. I would psych myself up by saying, I'm going out for a drink! With someone I'll have lots to talk to about, since I've never met them!
I have so been where you are, and I know how much it sucks. I'm an old, so my pre-app nemeses were Match.com and their various ilk. I found that even on the rare occasions when I managed to find someone who seemed interesting and non-sheep-like, it was still tough to get the time investment right. I'd waste tons of time laying groundwork (texting probably would have made this much easier) to meet someone I almost always knew was a hard "nope" two seconds after arrival. Or, on one memorable date, when we had spent *way* too much time talking before we met in person, I wound up in bed with a guy who was creepily both a total fucking stranger and someone I (erroneously) felt like I knew intimately (through a ridiculously extended email exchange... and a couple of 2-hour phone calls -- a thing I am now both nostalgic for and horrified to recall existed). I was so freaked out afterward, I wound up deleting my profile and swearing off the platform forever.
All this to say that the thing I recommend most highly (assuming it still exists) -- and I know this will sound nuts to a fellow introvert, but bear with me -- speed dating. I know, *I know*, but seriously: You meet 30 guys in 90 minutes. It's insanely efficient, and if you go in with the right mindset, it can be borderline-to-actually fun. Or, fine, at least kind of entertaining. The idea of approaching it as a science experiment is exactly right. Detach yourself from worrying about how you're coming off and look at it as you interviewing someone for the short-term job of amusing you for a couple months.
Come up with 3-5 non-mundane questions -- manic genius and/or profound insight isn't necessary, just avoid the stultifying standards (almost all the dudes I talked to froze up and threw out desperate zzz-inducers about work, free time, family, blah blah blah). I think I asked about best vacation, most embarrassing school memory, favorite thing to doodle -- probably all the shitty, idiotic prompts you hate on the apps -- but when they have to answer them in person on the spot, it's much more useful. What they say usually doesn't matter as much as whether they seem to get you or smile at your questions or stare at you in horror like you're a whackjob. And if they do the last one, just imagine the scientist in your head nodding while taking notes and muttering, "interesting... #17 gives every indication of being a major crapweasel...NEXT!"
As others have said, certainly better than I'm managing, try to make it fun and interesting for you while looking at the dude across from you as a potentially fascinating (but ultimately eminently replaceable) forest-dwelling creature of a species you happen to be studying for the good of humanity. There's a ton of good advice here, and Polly is right on -- it's fantastic to share your life with a fellow weirdo, but you have to be in a place where you love your weird enough to be able to pull it out and show it off a little before the right weirdo will recognize you and follow you home panting. You'll get there eventually, I promise. We're all rooting for you and sending you deliciously-fruity-yet-bracing virtual cocktails of solidarity.
Heather! Brilliant!
I clicked this link SO FAST because I feel like I could have written this letter a couple of years ago. I was very eager to read the response, but now I'm just... confused.
Why is so much of the advice related to the LW changing her attitude that she's fucked up/unworthy? She says that she feels alienated by her circumstances, not that she doesn't like who she is as a person. Why is the assumption that she's faulting herself for not being like the average dating app user?
And how can someone simply decide that something soul crushing is not soul crushing? 99% of the advice given by most people is some variation of "change your outlook." Which makes sense, in a way, because it's the only thing that's really in the LW's control here. But, practically speaking, I'm not sure how anyone really follows that advice. How does anyone choose enjoy a romance with the moon? I don't think I even know what that means. And, maybe more to the point, how can a moon romance be genuinely satisfying when someone wants a real connection?
I see "It’s not as lonely as you think." and I think... yes it is. What am I missing?
Oops posted before I was done, but I love the idea of exploring what you hate about the apps! Don't give up on them yet, we can try to take the broken parts of our society and make them work for us. Wishing you best of luck!!